Adding substrate to full tank

[metalhalide]

I am transitioning from a very basic gravel-bottom 10g tank to a big setup. My new 75g is cycling (fishless) and has about 40lbs of eco-complete on the bottom (I wanted to have at least some substrate established with beneficial bacteria, not just dump it all in before planting, and that was what Petland had that day). We have a common goldfish that will be moving there once the cycle is complete. I plan on planting the tank and using cold-water low-light plants.

I ordered four bags of black Flourite from AquariumPlants. com but they called me this week saying that they didn't have enough Flourite. But they would send me their house brand, and more of it, for the same charge (and free shipping). Sounds good. But when I explained the composition of my current substrate, the guy said "I'm glad I talked to you before you just dumped our substrate in." He told me that he has seen tanks that are so dusty that the fish stir up substrate by swimming by.

So, I have advice, from someone reputable, that I should empty the water from my tank before I add substrate (and, I think, dump out the eco-complete) so I don't end up with a mess. It wasn't clear whether the issue was the eco-complete, or b/c the Aquarium Plants freshwater planted substrate (or any substrate for that matter) becomes stratified with the finest particles on the top. Or whether the issue was mixing two different types of substrate. Seems to me that if you vacuum your substrate, move plants, divide them, etc. that you are going to disturb the substrate over time anyway.

He told me that tank owners have devised tricks for adding substrate to established tanks (there HAVE to be people who do this, not every planted tank is a brand new one, right?). One feasible-sounding workaround: deliver the substrate directly to the bottom of the tank using 3inch PVC pipe.

Have any of you added substrate to the bottom of an established tank?

Should I be concerned about mixing eco-complete with Aquarium Plant's substrate?

Would you remove the eco-complete from the tank?

BTW, I'm going to rinse the AQ substrate.

Thanks

 

[mikeb210]

I use a mix of eco and flourite in one of my tanks and I've had no problems at all with it. Can't imagine the other substrate would be much different than those two. I'm pretty sure the bigger substrate pieces end up on top and finer dust at the bottom, at least in my tanks that's how it goes.

Dumping new substrate like that into an established tank is doable, but it will probably be ugly. I would put the whole bag in and then cut the bag and then delicately pull the plastic out. Use a long enough knife and you should be able to cut it in half length-wise and then just pull from either side to remove the two halves. It'll still get a little dusty, but running some extra mechanical filtration should clear that up in a day or two. Good luck and take lots of pictures.

Mike

 

[jemanser]

I was told that exact same thing regarding adding Aquarium Plants own substrate to established substrate. I know I have done it before with eco-complete without much clouding to the water at all. Maybe their product is more dusty, but I agree with Mikeb210, the finer substrate particles should settle at the bottom anyway. Let us know how it turns out. Avoid capping by mixing the two substrates well.

 

[jmhart]

Aquariumplants.com's substrate is just Soilmaster Select. It's lighter than Flourite and I found it to be too light to be used by itself. I mixed it with original Flourite 50/50 and it worked great.

Mixing it with the Eco will probably accomplish the same thing and be fine, as long as it's at least 50% Eco.

 

[247Plants]

FYI soilmaster select is very cheap. Unless they are sending you a lot, I would wait for more flourite/eco.

 

[jmhart]

FYI soilmaster select is very cheap. Unless they are sending you a lot, I would wait for more flourite.

I wasn't sure of the best way to say that, but I agree with that 100%. I paid $9 for a 50 lbs bag of Soilmaster Select, which 50 lbs was enough to do a 45g with 3" of substrate, a 46" bowfront with 3" of substrate, and have a little left over.

SMS isn't as widely distributed as it used to be, but you can use Turface instead. Similar product, not quite as cheap. Sold at Lesco stores(google them).

However, if you wanted flourite I would just wait for AP.com to get more in. If you are ok with SMS, I would cancel the order and get some Turface.

 

[jemanser]

jmhart- did you read Aquariumplants.com comparison between their product and ecocomplete...essentially it states that the eco substrate is heated at such high temperatures rendering its nutients unavailable to the plants, thus making it inferior to their product. Is this just propaganda? They also state eco substrate is not permanent as the company claims...These two comments sound contradictory. My question is can the eco substrate replenish its stores if presented with substrate fertilizers or does it act just become like any old gravel substrate over time?

 

[jmhart]

jmhart- did you read Aquariumplants.com comparison between their product and ecocomplete...essentially it states that the eco substrate is heated at such high temperatures rendering its nutients unavailable to the plants, thus making it inferior to their product. Is this just propaganda? They also state eco substrate is not permanent as the company claims...These two comments sound contradictory. My question is can the eco substrate replenish its stores if presented with substrate fertilizers or does it act just become like any old gravel substrate over time?

I don't see a comparison, except for this statement:

In comparison to "Eco-complete": Eco-complete takes 120 lbs (6 bags) to cover the same area, at a cost of over $180.00 !!! Shipped in a FREE bucket...great to keep around for water changes etc.

Eco-Complete, Flourite, SMS, and Turface are all baked-clay substrates with high Cation Exchange Coefficients (CECs). A high CEC reflects the substrate's ability to absorb nutrients, thus "replenish" itself. These also do not break down.

I also see this:

Will not break down or dissolve or turn to mud like others do.

Non-baked substrates like Aquasoil and Azoo Plant Grower eventually break down and turn to mud.



SMS/Aquariumplants.com's substrate are good subrates and good on the cheap. The annoying thing is that it is light, and doesn't hold plants down all that great. You can work with it, but it's just not quite as easy to plant in as some of the other heavier stuff.

AP's mark-up is wicked. Like I said, I paid $9 for 50 lbs which.

 

[jemanser]

jmhart-I stand corrected, the comparison made between the two substrates was a reviewer's comment quoted below:

BEST SUBSTRATE ON THE MARKET April 10, 2007Reviewer: donald e from grand island, NE United States This review is gonna be lenghty, but informative:

My son is a marine biologist (31 years) with tons of backround in freshwater fish & live plants. When I went to set up my 300 gallon aquarium, I asked for his help (again). Explaing to him I wanted the ultimate freshwater "planted" aquarium. Our first point of research was to get the BEST substrate available. Here's what we learned:

ECO-COMPLETE: Advertised as permanant, and nutrient complete. There in NO such substrate that is permanent, this is impossible. Also, it is "volcanic" meaning it has been baked to 1000's of degrees, sealing in any nutrients...so, the nutrients in it are not "available" to the plant roots.

SEACHEM FLOURITE: A somewhat natural clay based substrate that has not been processed or baked enough, so it turns to MUD. Also, advertised as permanent, but is not, 'cause as aforementioned, there is NO such substrate as permanent.

 

[247Plants]

Dont believe everything you read lol.

Indeed no substrate will forever give off nutrients, just some do it better than others over a set amount of time. jmhart nailed it when he stated that aquasoil and azoo are more of the mud type while the others mentioned are some form of baked clay.

Another angle on this situation is inert substrates. I personally prefer colorquartz if I am looking for a darker soil. Ive never had a problem growing anything in it so far and Ive grown thousands of plants with it now.