Glimmer of hope?

[myswtsins]

[FONT=&quot]So I am winning the battle with my fish illness, LOTS of WCs & a little salt and everyone is healing up nicely. (Details HERE) After seeing that the female that was in the basket healed up so well I was sure it had to be battle wounds with secondary infections as some of you suggested (thank you!). So I am treating the syptoms for now but I need to resolve the root of the problem, aggression. Trouble is they are all equally aggressive! (except the acei because they just mind their own business) Everyone chases everyone but I NEVER see any real contact even (but I know it is there) so I can't figure out who to get rid of.

Current stocking
1:5 Mainganos
1:2 Albino Socolofi
1:5 OB Red Zebra
0:3 Yellow Labs
2:0 Acei
1:5 Cobalts


The only guys I do not want to part with are my acei & OBs BUT I am getting very worn down with this game of catch up & replace and the constant balancing act that is required for Mbunas. I have 3 tanks of OBs, albinos, acei & yellow lab fry/juvis to try to even out the numbers but their numbers are leaning towards mostly male (yet again).

Do you think a tank this size would do better with only 2-3 species in larger numbers? (Say 12 acei, 7 Obs & 7 yellow labs)

At what point is it ok to add a second male to a species group? I have 2 male OBs I really love, how many females would be needed for 2 males?[/FONT]

 

[blue2fyre]

Congrats! Glad your winning, it gives me hope.

I have found with my msobos that having a second male causes them to bicker with each other and not worry about the females. My male msobos just chase each other and occasionally have a lip locking contest. The females are left untouched.

If it were me I would keep the acei, OBs, maingano and socolofi. I think besides the acei they are pretty matched as far as aggression and would give a nice color pallet.

 

[myswtsins]

Thanks! The mainganos are first one the list to go because they are among the most aggressive in the tank, are dark & hide all the time, just not thrilling me over all although they are gorgeous up close but I rarely sit directly in front of the tank. I have 7 of them and hardly ever see them.

The albino socolofi are one of my favorites though! But they are definitely bullies, with the new setup with the 2 rock piles the 3 albino own the entire left pile and they only come out to chase others away from their pile so even though they are one of my top choices, in my effort to reduce aggression they gotta go. My choice of 3 would have been acei, ob & albino socolofi if it weren't for those factors.

I figure with acei, obs & yellow labs I will only have 1 aggressive species well out numbered by less aggressive species (as recommended to me previously) & lots of color and activity.

I find it amazing that I can have an aggression issue that I can only see the results of (wounds & hiding) but never the battles, very frustrating. :wall: And this tank has someone looking at it most of the day between the 4 of us in the house.

 

[blue2fyre]

Sorry about the mainganos. I only have one left and he shows up pretty well in my tank and is active. He is a punk though. I have lighter colored rocks and different lighting which maybe why mine shows up more.
I wish you lived closer, I'm in need of some mainganos!
The yellow labs with acei and OBs sound good but I always worry about the more aggressive species being too much for the mellow species. I finally found balance in my tank when I matched up the aggression levels. But each case is different. When I had more acei they took the brunt of the aggression since they were more peaceful.

 

[justinf67]

[FONT=&quot]So I am winning the battle with my fish illness, LOTS of WCs & a little salt and everyone is healing up nicely. (Details HERE) After seeing that the female that was in the basket healed up so well I was sure it had to be battle wounds with secondary infections as some of you suggested (thank you!). So I am treating the syptoms for now but I need to resolve the root of the problem, aggression. Trouble is they are all equally aggressive! (except the acei because they just mind their own business) Everyone chases everyone but I NEVER see any real contact even (but I know it is there) so I can't figure out who to get rid of.

I told you the power of salt is amazing huh? glad everyone is healing up

Current stocking
1:5 Mainganos
1:2 Albino Socolofi
1:5 OB Red Zebra
0:3 Yellow Labs
2:0 Acei
1:5 Cobalts


The only guys I do not want to part with are my acei & OBs BUT I am getting very worn down with this game of catch up & replace and the constant balancing act that is required for Mbunas. I have 3 tanks of OBs, albinos, acei & yellow lab fry/juvis to try to even out the numbers but their numbers are leaning towards mostly male (yet again).

Do you think a tank this size would do better with only 2-3 species in larger numbers? (Say 12 acei, 7 Obs & 7 yellow labs)

At what point is it ok to add a second male to a species group? I have 2 male OBs I really love, how many females would be needed for 2 males?

[/FONT]

Okay, the problem here is a simple one. Ur tank I am assuming has a 48'' footprint. The amount of species u have in this tank is usually reserved for a 125 6 foot tank...

If u really want to nip it and have a higher chance for success, u need to narrow it down to TOPS 4 species. U really want the ratios as good as possible. Ur dead set on the ob's and the acei. Ur numbers on the acei are wayyy too much. If it is infact a 48'' tank. If that is the case, I would say 1:4 or 5 at the most as they are large mbuna. Red zebra males are well known for being very aggressive when they mature. Its hard to see as most get them young and dont witness it. I have a male that I have grown up who is still pretty small at 3.5'', but the sudden sexual maturity he has become a little terror... Since this is the case, I would say 1 male ob max...I know this sucks, but it will help calm aggression. The 2 other species u keep are whatever u want, but keep a good ratio. No more than 1 male... Multiple males usually dont work out well, as they ignore the females and fight instead, which is not what u want....

So, in a nutshell, lose one male acei and add 4-5 females. Lose one male ob and make sure there are plenty of females for him...Ur call on the other 2 species, but again, ONE male is important for success. U can up the female numbers, like the female ob's. The volume of ur tank allows a little higher female #'s

 

[efors]

I also agree with the 4 species idea. But IMHO, the best combo would be: labs, aceis, socolofis and mainganos. That is because I think the zebras may be the main suspects of your tank's aggression issues.

 

[myswtsins]

The advice changes here as often as Pitbull changes his stock. I was overall (and unanimously) advised to stock this tank with 25-30 Mbunas of 5-6 species at 1:4 ratios which included an even larger species originally all the while being told that 20 Mbuna would not suffice as overstocked.

Like I said it is hard to tell who the real aggressors are but I am pretty sure it is not the OBs. Mostly because they are always out and about unlike the others. But maybe that is a bad thing? Do I have it all backwards? When I researched this tank before setup I was under the impression that this would be a very active lively tank but since maturity I have not seen that to be true, which is very disappointing & why I love the acei so much.

So you think 4 species would be better than 3? Any particular reason? I'd prefer 3 species so I can sneak as many acei in there as I can. I should also mention that when I remove the extra species I will keep them in a 160g+ holding pond until I am sure of the correct mix. I worked too hard and long for these guys to take any chance of getting rid of fish I may want/need.

 

[blue2fyre]

I would like to mention that I didn't just come up with the 2 male idea. I was advised to do this by a very experienced fish breeder who does many talks in my area. He's also vice chair of our local fish club and on the board of trustees for the ACA. I took his advice pretty seriously and I was surprised how well it turned out. I'm not sure if it's just because of the msobo temperament but it did work. The subdominant male gets chased a lot but usually that's it. The females are left untouched.

 

[justinf67]

The advice changes here as often as Pitbull changes his stock. I was overall (and unanimously) advised to stock this tank with 25-30 Mbunas of 5-6 species at 1:4 ratios which included an even larger species originally all the while being told that 20 Mbuna would not suffice as overstocked.

Like I said it is hard to tell who the real aggressors are but I am pretty sure it is not the OBs. Mostly because they are always out and about unlike the others. But maybe that is a bad thing? Do I have it all backwards? When I researched this tank before setup I was under the impression that this would be a very active lively tank but since maturity I have not seen that to be true, which is very disappointing & why I love the acei so much.

So you think 4 species would be better than 3? Any particular reason? I'd prefer 3 species so I can sneak as many acei in there as I can. I should also mention that when I remove the extra species I will keep them in a 160g+ holding pond until I am sure of the correct mix. I worked too hard and long for these guys to take any chance of getting rid of fish I may want/need.

Okay, I was not part of that group. A 48'' tank should be stocked as a 55g almost since the footprint is similar. U can def do 3 species. That is actually prob safer. I was advising since most want more, lol...

As for the ob's think about it. If they are out and about, thats pointing to them being the aggressors as the rest are hiding from them. I agree that its prob them, but one male and a close eye can help. Aggression is usually not seen. I can turn the light off on my tank and watch them for like 20 min and there are fights going on between fish that I never knew about.

This next statement is not a bash on this site. This site is helpful and has very friendly members. I do frequent it some. But, for serious cichlid knowledge, there are more(numberwise) knowledgeable forum members at cichlid-forum.com... If u have questions, post there as well because u will get another side to the story...

the acei is tricky. they get large and are open water swimming fish that some say need a 5-6 foot tank. so to add a ton would be pushing it. U can up your other numbers, but acei should be in a larger footprint tank

 

[myswtsins]

I should clarify that I do only have 1 male per species in this tank, except the acei & I think the cobalts are not a 1:5 like they were given to me as but a 2:4. The other male OB I like is a 2.25" juvi in my grow out tank that I just can't seem to let go of.

What you're saying about the OBs being out and about makes perfect sense but doesn't seem to fit what I am seeing. What I see is that the fish are usually being chased out of the caves so the least aggressive fish are stuck out in the open. If the OBs were my main problem I don't think he would tolerate nearly ALL the fish hanging around his cave, he lives in the center of the right rock pile. The female OBs (3 of which are holding) & yellow labs are the only ones that normally hang out around the pile instead of inside it.

Notice in the pictures nearly all the fish are on the right side? The fish on the left are the albinos, the male maingano and his main squeeze (he likes one female in particular), & the male cobalt (who resides just outside the rock pile towards the middle). They keep everyone on the other side of the tank, always! Usually the acei are swimming around together but lately they have been hiding on the right side too.

I am not trying to argue, I swear! It is just that what I am seeing in my tank doesn't seem to match the normal circumstances so I am just trying to convey what I am seeing which is that most of the fish not in caves are the less aggressive ones, holding females, acei & yellow labs.