Under Substrate Heater?

I perfer to me able to remove my heaters if something goes wrong with them. I don't have any experiance with under gravel heater, but i would think they could hurt plant roots.
 
What I've read in a book is that they are specifically for plants. They heat the substrate, but don't replace a standard heater (I've already got a standard heater.) Since I've found very few of them for sale, I assume they aren't widely used, but before I put in my substrate I'd like to figure out if there's a reason to use one.


(Edit: actually on further reading it appears that substrate heaters do provide full tank heating, and aren't meant to be used in conjunction with another type of heater.)
 
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It seems to me that if it were really that helpful, they'd be more widely used. IMO, sufficient light, and nutrients are both neccessary and sufficient to grow healthy, lush plants.
 
I found an interesting article about the subject:
http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Substrate.htm

Amongst other things, it says the following: "By making this investment, you will find that plants will grow healthy and will stay that way for many years. You will discover that there is much less problem algae. In fact, you may wonder if there is any algae at all! And finally, you can achieve these results without constantly adding supplements to the substrate to compensate for the lack of critical nutrients."

They're pretty costly though, so I'm still not sure. Hope someone's had some experience here.
 
From what I know they're use a lot in Europe. They have some on youtube vids.
 
Meh...

Look at what that same article also says...

However, based on our experience, substrate heating will not improve the rate at which plants grow. If you are looking for a Silver Bullet to improve plant growth, don't look to substrate heating. You might want to investigate CO2 injection instead.
Click to expand...

With the right combo of Co2, light, and nutrient input you will do just fine. The only big pro I see is that they are easier to hide.
 
I have a Hydor substrate heater and controller. As far as I know, it is not necessarily meant to be used as a whole tank heater, it's not powerful enough to function as one. A 50w in a 20g might work, but not in a 33, imo, which is the largest size tank they recommend it for.

I have used it, I don't think it made any difference. I killed my plants just as fast with it as I did without it. :shakehead:

My view on it is that I doubt it's going to hurt anything, but unless you have everything else set (substrate, lighting, fertilization and CO2), it's unlikely to help anything, either. If it's worth anything at all (and I'm not convinced that it is, I just wanted to try it), it's one of those "last 1% items" that'll only serve to squeeze the last little bit out of the setup.
 
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cobfreak said:
I found an interesting article about the subject:
http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Substrate.htm

Amongst other things, it says the following: "By making this investment, you will find that plants will grow healthy and will stay that way for many years. You will discover that there is much less problem algae. In fact, you may wonder if there is any algae at all! And finally, you can achieve these results without constantly adding supplements to the substrate to compensate for the lack of critical nutrients."

They're pretty costly though, so I'm still not sure. Hope someone's had some experience here.
Click to expand...

I know that George feller well, nice guy.
He was one of the last hold outs when we debated their "insignificant effectiveness". He fessed they where not a significant factor in helping plant growth, he was trying to find some positive benefit based on Dupla's sales and marketing claims.

I've had 7 tanks with them, Dupla, Sandpoint, even made 4 of them from raw electrical supply equipment and parts. I live where it is hot in th esummer, so they never come on for 4-5 months out of the year, I never noticed any differences, started shutting them off, never noticed any differences.

With 7 tanks and many others reporting the same things........folks got smart and stop wasting their money on the Dupla BS.

Dupla brought dosing CO2 vai gas tank systems...........which really helped.........but the cables never helped. Folks attributed the entire system without testing each individual aspect.

Same issue with ADA substrate system vs ADA aqua soil by itself, it works fine without all the other stuff. Unless you isolate and test it, you cannot determine what is doing the effect(or not)

Dupla sold their planted tanks as "complete systems", ADA also pulls this same marketing ploy to hock their ADA "substrate system". Sold to hobbyists have too much $$$ and not enough time to bother to test I guess.

I did though.
I have a few clients that had the full Dupla systems, cables, lights, all the CO2 system etc. George only had the cables and a few small additives etc.

Do some searches, ask around, look at the nicer scapes, see if those folks who have a nice tank at a high level use them, you'll have trouble finding folks that use them at such levels.

CO2? Lots of folks use that. Ferts? Rich sediments? Same thing, lots do.



Regards,
Tom Barr
 
jpappy789 said:
Meh...

Look at what that same article also says...



With the right combo of Co2, light, and nutrient input you will do just fine. The only big pro I see is that they are easier to hide.
Click to expand...

Yea, I nailed George about this, if it does not hep plants grow, do not add it. That was 12 years ago? He's a nice guy, I like him.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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