Target Water Chemistry (non-EI Category)

DJDrZ

DJDrZ

AC Members
Jul 31, 2010
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Collegeville, PA
So, I am not keen on the 50% water change that is part of the EI for dosing planted aquaria. I actually like doing the water testing (it's the chemist in me). I like to track the data, etc. So, I am looking for some sort of consensus on what targets I should have for those easily testable quantities: NO3, pH, KH, GH, CO2, even temp?
The targets I have been aiming at based upon a bunch of other websites are: NO3 ~5-10ppm, pH 6.5-7.0, KH ~5, GH ~10, CO2?, temp?

From reading around here, I think I am targeting NO3 too low right off the bat.

I am looking to have nice plants to accentuate my fish, not fish to accentuate my plants.

I would be curious if people here (and I am definitely a newbie around these parts) just do EI or what?
 
DJDrZ said:
So, I am not keen on the 50% water change that is part of the EI for dosing planted aquaria. I actually like doing the water testing (it's the chemist in me). I like to track the data, etc. So, I am looking for some sort of consensus on what targets I should have for those easily testable quantities: NO3, pH, KH, GH, CO2, even temp?
The targets I have been aiming at based upon a bunch of other websites are: NO3 ~5-10ppm, pH 6.5-7.0, KH ~5, GH ~10, CO2?, temp?

From reading around here, I think I am targeting NO3 too low right off the bat.

I am looking to have nice plants to accentuate my fish, not fish to accentuate my plants.

I would be curious if people here (and I am definitely a newbie around these parts) just do EI or what?
Click to expand...

Hey dj, I do the ei dosing. As for your other questions, I guess you could test iron, and phosphates as well. easiest way to test co2 would be with a drop checker(constant test though) with 4 dKH soulution and aim for about 30ppm. Temp thats basically up to you and your fish. One of the biggest reason I ei dose is because there are a lot of things that I don't think you can easily test. Such as with your micro nutrients.
 
fastlight81 said:
Hey dj, I do the ei dosing. As for your other questions, I guess you could test iron, and phosphates as well. easiest way to test co2 would be with a drop checker(constant test though) with 4 dKH soulution and aim for about 30ppm. Temp thats basically up to you and your fish. One of the biggest reason I ei dose is because there are a lot of things that I don't think you can easily test. Such as with your micro nutrients.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I do also test for Pi, and I do NOT have a good target for that. I am coming off a GW disaster, so I am at 0-0.25 ppm for Pi.
 
DJDrZ said:
I would be curious if people here (and I am definitely a newbie around these parts) just do EI or what?
Click to expand...

I'm interested in following this thread, hoping for a good discussion. I've been wanting to ask the same question but haven't gotten around to it. I have not yet begun dosing, although i've got a bunch of dry ferts. I am not in exactly the same position as you - I'm not all that interested in doing frequent tests; but I'm ALSO not interested in doing weekly 50 percent water changes. I think that's going to be too much work for my available time, and I also feel like it's sort of a wasteful way to do things. On the surface, anyway - I haven't done it myself, so I'm not pretending to know better.

So I've been wanting to find a method whereby I can somehow add the minimum ferts, keeping my plants healthy and growing without necessarily focusing on huge, fast growth.

I'm working on setting up a 29 gallon planted in which I may try EI, but the 55 just seems too big for that kind of water changing.
 
i think the majority of people dose ei. its much easier. you should be doing weekly water changes anyway, so whats a few more gallons to go from 25% to 50%. and ei is really just what you make of it. its all about dumping in more nuritents that your plants can consume to rule out nutrient deficiencies and other problems associated with. you dont have to do 50% water changes a week but it helps to remove excess crap in the water that you dont need

as far as a target range... you're not heading in the right direction already. none of us can guess how much nutrients the plants in your tank can consume. if i tell you to aim for 10 ppm but your plants consume 11ppm, you are bound to have an algae break out. you never want your nutrients to bottom out. lack of nutrients cause algae usually and not the other way around. now really if the chemist in you is really urging to come. start with ei. test your water and try to figure out how much your plants are using and lower your ei dosing to fit your regime a little better. just make sure that the plants dont run out of anything and you'll be fine

and i just want to make sure that you have calibrated your test kits, otherwise your testing will be worthless
 
Its easy to stay away from ferts, and waterchanges, just stay with a low light tank. Alot of people seem to want to go about this backwards by selecting lights then trying to force some fert or waterchange schedule. The amount of light will pretty well determine what sort of fertilization method you use. The problem with testing is the amount of work, operator error, and test kit errors. (And the myth that ferts in a planted tank cause algae). Hobbyist test kits have a fairly large margin of error, add to that the difficulty in interpreting results. Getting meaningful results involves testing your test kit regularly with reference solutions and comparing these to the test results from the tank. It could be done, but most people are going to find it much more work than the most popular planted tank regimes. The following is a quick overview.

Natural Planted tanks are good for low to medium light, involve little or no fertilization and very few to no water changes. They use a rich substrate such as top soil to provide carbon and nutrients. Growth is slow to moderate and your aquascape tends to be fairly static since uprooting plants tends to pull up the mud on the bottom.

A low light planted "fish tank" doesn't use the rich substrate and tends to be more limited. Ambient CO2 and fish waste provide the majority of nutrients for plants. Substrate enrichment through plant tabs and light ferts can be helpful but may not be necessary. Water changes should be infrequent to avoid fluctuations in CO2 levels which may trigger algae. Plants are limited to hardy, low light, and slow growth.

I'm going to mention ADA tank systems also, though my knowledge is limited. They tend to run in the moderate light range, involve an enriched commercial substrate and also require some water dosing of ferts. The science behind this is kind of murky, since the company seems very marketing savvy, imo. The company seems to have adopted features of "natural" plant tanks, EI and PPS. You can get away with mixing methods if you know what you're doing, if you don't, it will be a disaster.

PPS may be something your interested in. Based on light levels, they have devised formulas for daily dosing of nutrients. This means that the amount and frequency of water changes are reduced from EI. Its used in higher light systems. More information can be found at aquaticplantcentral. I will say it doesn't seem to be uncommon for failures in the system that require moving to EI at least temporarily to remedy.

IMO, EI is almost the only way to deal with high light, high growth tanks. It allows the use of any plant. The biggest downfall is the growth, and some point a lot of people will decide they really didn't want to prune every week.

Ranges for nutrients should be high enough to ensure they never bottom out causing your plant growth to stall. Allowing plants to grow as fast as they can with the available light seems to limit algae growth. In my tanks, I've never seen plant growth stall or slow down and not have an algae bloom.

Nitrates- 20 and up. Conceivably lower would be fine, but then you have to worry about test kit error. If a nutrient is at the bottom of what your test kit reads, then (based on margin of error) is could just as easily be 0.

Phosphates - 1ppm and up is fine.

gH - calcium and magnesium. Generally a reading of above 3 degrees is fine.

CO2 - completely dependent on light as far as minimums. High light requires 30 ppm.

kH - not required.

Iron and traces. .1 and up, though the test kits are among the least reliable. I generally just dose alot.

Hope this helps.
 
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