Welcome DocTim aka Dr. Tim Hovanec, inventor of Dr. Tim's One And Only, fmr. BioSpira

If you go to his home page, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com, on the left side, near the top, there's a big gold button with blue print called "Fishless Cycling" which will bring you to his article about fishless cycling and he covers most of the popular methods.. of course, including the use of his product to instantly cycle a tank. Of course, he doesn't cover my favorite way to fishless cycle a tank... the peeing in the tank method! LOL But it does work!!! The problem is measuring spoonfuls while balancing up on the ladder. :-P
 
i measure my spoons on my back porch, pour them in a cup and bring them to the tank itself safely without spillage. :laugh: thanks anyway, lenny. i'm kinda curious about what i asked... not how to fishy or fish-less cycle. if you think it's better i start my own thread i'll be happy to do it. i'd be less confident about a response that way though since i'm specifically curious as to dr. tims stance on the matter in particular.
 
It's the weekend and I'm pretty sure there are LOTS of fish society meetings and conventions going on all over right now... at least I've seen lots of postings about them in other forums in the past couple of weeks... so he's probably speaking at one or more of them. You're right about posting here as I hope he went thru his User Control Panel to get email alerts when new posts are posted in a thread so he'll be most likely to see it here. I was just pointing out that he advocates fishless cycling regardless of the method... I'm sure he's going to say the best way is with Dr. Tim's One And Only... but we can let him speak for himself since he hasn't paid me yet... dangit!!! LOL
 
Hey dundadundun:

Let's see if this answers your questions it not I'll try again!

One example is a yearly National Pet Owners Survey conducted by the APPMA (american pet product manufacturers association which is now called american pet products assn) and it shows home ownership of aquaria had been flat for a while. Since we know that the tank manufacturers are still selling a lot of aquaria it follows that generally as one person buys a tank and joins the hobby one person drops out of the hobby. (yes, some people buy a second tank etc.) but we're talking over all trends. This same general data was found in private surveys by major aquarium companies. The economy the last 2-3 years has to be factored in but the trend is the same.

This new tank owner is the first target market. They generally don't know much about fish or aquaria but they want one for various reasons. Now put yourself in the position of the fish store owner - this new person comes in ready to spend their money and you have to tell them they can't have any fish for a few days and after that only a few fish for the first 6 weeks. Or they can toss some dead shrimp/cut fish in the tank, leave it empty for 6 weeks or (no - I am not going to endorse Lenny's method).

How become the customer - I can't have fish and the tank's going to be basically empty for how long? That just doesn't work for many people.

You get the idea. So they either follow this advice or go to another store that tells them nothing and sells them everything including fish and once home they set everything up, add fish and experience New Tank Syndrome which totally turns them off to keeping fish. Look how many people come here with basically the same question -high ammonia, fish hurting, etc.

So the novice aquarist is one target.

The second target is the advanced aquarist who's setting up a second, third tank or is trying to re-establish their filter after a disease treatment. The same surveys show that there is a certain percentage of people who have kept aquaria for 7 years plus. This group has a lot of experience and is leery of new product claims etc but probably are in a club (or on a forum like this) and they are willing to try things out and give advice.

As for my preferred method. I would use my bacteria but whether to go fishless or live fish depends.

The reasons to use my bacteria are:
1) no contamination from another tank
2) using gravel/sponge/dirty water also introduces heterotrophic bacteria that can cause a bloom resulting in cloudy aquarium water
3) is give the nitrifiers a chance to colonize as many areas as possible before the heterotrophic bacteria become established

In regards to fishless or not:
If you want to add all the fish at one time such as cichlids of all the same size I would go fishless because you can make sure the cycle is working and the tank can handle a lot of ammonia

If you have going to do a community tank and add fish over time then I would start right off with fish.

Cheers
 
thanks, lenny... you don't have to explain forums... i moderate one and have been offered to have full administrative and partial creative control over a couple. i just don't speak jargon well on several things i do well. i'm like a sleeper car in that manner.

doc tim... your explanations on both of my questions are admirable. i admittedly have no idea about your products but feel much better about them in the event i may have a need for them. your honesty about your target audience is a good thing, imo. it is highly more likely that newbs would need such a product, obviously. honestly... i'm very highly unlikely to need them imho but it's good that you pointed out how your one and only could be used to re-establish a tank after medication. i honestly hadn't considered that as a possible use. makes a lot of sense though.

i will keep it in close consideration in the event i ever feel a need for something similar. i guess thanks to lenny are in order for bringing this whole thing to light.

i hope you'll understand when i say since i have no experience with your one and only that i still stand that other methods will be my go to and therefore what i suggest when asked. i'm honestly still skeptical... but not in total dis-belief and suspect others may feel the same. i am curious, though.

this may be a stupid question, but have you considered sample packs for some of the more prominent members to test out. i feel having the support of a forum such as this that gets pretty heavy traffic would certainly do you some good to spread the word. i know lenny is a smart guy but take this thread and the last for example. even if he's completely right and you are obviously completely accredited in your field... it still leaves a grey area on a subject clouded by grey area with plenty of products that either get mixed reviews or simply fail to live up to their claims completely. makes things kinda tough for those that just don't understand, may have "failproof" methods, are the skeptic type, etc., ... especially in the pet trade... too many useless/harmful products for blind trust to be realistic.

if you could convince rbishop, the v, and zigman for example (who are highly regarded in this community) then your product would more than speak for itself on this forum at least. in my humble opinion...
 
Welcome DocTim, and i for one am glad you do the work you do,. when i was a noobie,.. i almost killed my fish listening to other and using their products that didn't work,..

i used your stuff, both fresh and salt versions and they did what they claimed,.. and caught flack about it but i used it and tested and it did what you claimed,.. and me and my fish tank you,.. that was a few years ago,.. 2006 i believe,..
and i trust your products,..
 
Thanks much dixienut, I appreciate the comments.

To answer you dundadundun, when you come on to a forum many suspicions arise from members and some can be rather vocal. Just look at the beginning of this thread. People, naturally, to a degree, think you’re out to only promote your stuff and, of course, your stuff is snake oil :).

Also I not qualified to know who’s highly regarded on the forum – it is just numbers of posts? It takes a while to get to know people and for them to know you. I think that if you just start trying to get people to test your products by giving them away they’ll be suspicious of you and then even if they are ‘brave’ enough to post a positive note and put up with what Lenny did after he started this thread does someone reply that he gave you juiced stuff so, of course, it worked and all the other negative things that people say?

I don’t mind skepticism and negative comments but there should be something to back them up such as prior use, informed sources etc. Just to say “it’s all junk” (and I am not saying you or most of the others here are) without any real reasons is not helpful and confuses people who are reading the thread trying to get good advice.

I understand that people have been burned by nitrifying bacteria products – I wrote letter as a kid in the 70’s to Fritz Pet Products complaining about Fritz #7 and asking for my money back (which I got). But hopefully people will understand that there is some real published science behind the products I have made and give them a fair chance. We know so much more now than 15 to 30 years ago.

As for samples – where you draw the line? Do I give out 10, 100? How do I decide who’s qualified and who’s not? It’s not easy to be fair about it.
 
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