Switching Water Conditioner Brands

[GoldLenny]

EDTA (Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid) is the part of most dechlor products that treats heavy metals in tap water and most other water sources... even natural well or spring water can have heavy metals in it. Untreated heavy metals accumulate inside of fish organs (kidneys, liver, etc.) and cause all kinds of health problems over time. EVen things like copper, zinc, lead etc. from home plumbing... and all the other heavy metals that leach into our water supplies from factories, shipping and good old Mother Nature when water drips down through layers of earth to get back to an underground aquifer or reservoir water that is in contact with the earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylenediaminetetraacetic_acid (also read the Chelating Agent link in the first paragraph)

The sodium thiosulfate ONLY treats chlorine/chloramine, not heavy metals.

As far as *why* Prime costs more... as previously mentioned, API's Tap Water Conditioner costs around $5-$6 for a 16 oz. bottle which treats up to 9,400 gallons. Prime costs $10-$12 for a 16 oz. (500ml) bottle and only treats 5,000 gallons so it would take almost two bottles of Prime to treat what one bottle of API treats... so technically it could be as much as 4-5X's more costly depending on the prices paid for each product. They are both good products... just Prime isn't needed for most experienced hobbyists with mature and fully cycled tanks or those who are not stuck with cycling with fish.

Were you using the Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator or the Top Fin Tap Water Conditioner? They are separate products and the Top Fin Tap Water Conditioner adds a lot of other unnecessary crap like slime-this/stress-that type products. I NEVER recommend those types of products unless there is full disclosure as to what is in it and then the informed hobbyist can decide whether then need aloe in their water or some other completely unnatural and unnecessary chemicals in their tanks. Lots of people accidentally buy the wrong product since they are so similarly named... now for that, you could say Top Fin sucks in general but the Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator is simply Sodium Thiosulfate and EDTA in a water solution... just not as concentrated as API's Tap Water Conditioner (I wish they'd change it to Dechlorinator.... since Conditioner's from other companies adds other crap)

 

[GoldLenny]

Some good information here! But I don't think Prime is 2-3 times more expensive... a couple of bucks maybe.

So would there be a way to get EDTA in dry form also and use the two together?

For the first part, see my above reply.

For the second part, you can find EDTA at some industrial chemical supply places but just like with Sodium Thiosulfate in bulk, it's not usually cost effective for the average aquarist. For folks with LOTS of tanks and/or ponds or commercial endeavors, then it might be more practical but it's probably cheaper for the hobbyist... even those with lots of tanks to buy the 1/2 gallon or gallon sized products that are already available and pre-mixed.

 

[aXio]

For the first part, see my above reply.

For the second part, you can find EDTA at some industrial chemical supply places but just like with Sodium Thiosulfate in bulk, it's not usually cost effective for the average aquarist. For folks with LOTS of tanks and/or ponds or commercial endeavors, then it might be more practical but it's probably cheaper for the hobbyist... even those with lots of tanks to buy the 1/2 gallon or gallon sized products that are already available and pre-mixed.

I have 5 tanks right now total so I probably don't have enough to justify buying in bulk. Thank you soo much for your throughful and detailed answers! It's a very good read to me. I've learned so much already about conditioners from you!

Anyone have an opinion on Tetra or Kent water conditioners?

 

[dundadundun]

i'll be happy to send it to you so you can see for yourself what i'm referring to... if you have doubts that i can't read the difference between words such as "dechlorinator" and "conditioner". please be aware you're not speaking/typing to an idiot, though. i am well aware of product differences. i will send it to you free of charge as i am in dis-belief that anyone with experience would be willing to pay for it.

you do not need edta to rid your tap of chlorine/chloramine. i think you just stated that yourself. if a person has lots of heavy metals in their tap, sure it would be helpful... but such is not the case for me... and i suspect plenty of others as well. you're throwing around the idea of NOT using things you don't need but are suggesting anyone who uses sodium thiosufate needs edta. i don't think sodium thiosulfate needs edta to be safe personally. maybe your tap water, but not sodium thiosulfate. that would be on an individual/regional basis, don't you think?

pssst... prime takes exactly the same dose as top fin... and works without extra caution needed. caution such as don't adjust kh ever, else your tank might look like a cup full of alka-seltzer... i do understand that is more likely due to my local water source and things in the water their report doesn't disclose nor do they test for but i'm certainly never using top fin dechlor again.

if people are too cheap to use prime for anything short of massive tanks or ponds then i don't know what to say. my 500ml bottle (16.9 oz, btw) has lasted for quite some time. i am in no way threatened financially by that...

please... wikipedia does nothing for me. if you post a wiki link to prove or illustrate something to me, personally post something reliable to back it up. i do understand wiki is a great source of info... but it definitely needs to be backed up... and i'm just not willing to click, click, click all day to debunk, or back up what's posted there for someone else's benefit. for my own, yeah... but that's a different story.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208701&highlight=sodium+thiosulfate

for your pleasure (and yes, i've looked further than wiki into this in the past)... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_dithionite

sorry it took so long to respond but chasing kids can make it difficult at times...

 

[Carch]

Just cutting in here quickly

I have used the Top Fin brand at my workplace with our tanks (yeah, I work "there"), and in my personal opinion it is a very cheap brand. Filter hoses and propellers actually get covered in a half-inch layer of what looks like vaseline, same consistency too. This buildup happens in around a month of time.

Granted, I'm sure some people have used the brand fine, more power to you. I just refuse to touch the stuff.

 

[aXio]

pssst... prime takes exactly the same dose as top fin... and works without extra caution needed. caution such as don't adjust kh ever, else your tank might look like a cup full of alka-seltzer... i do understand that is more likely due to my local water source and things in the water their report doesn't disclose nor do they test for but i'm certainly never using top fin dechlor again.

I think he was comparing the dose amount from Pime to API not topfin

 

[aXio]

I have used the Top Fin brand at my workplace with our tanks (yeah, I work "there"), and in my personal opinion it is a very cheap brand. Filter hoses and propellers actually get covered in a half-inch layer of what looks like vaseline, same consistency too. This buildup happens in around a month of time.

Build up on my filter sounds horrible... I've never heard of conditioners causing build on filters before could anyone clarify on this? As too what maybe cause build up? My Fluval is already 12+ years old, so want to running as long as it possibly can.


Side Question.... how do I delete posts?

 

[dundadundun]

I think he was comparing the dose amount from Pime to API not topfin

mg: skimmer! :grinno:

all kidding aside... lenny has been pretty much bashing the "best dechlorinator on the market" (prime) according to most aquarists posting on the web. and did suggest top fin. if my opinion were to be at complete liberty of that product it certainly would speak for itself. i'm not sure my complete opinion would be welcomed on this forum, therefore i will spare my efforts and the mods time.

:nutkick: top fin... and yes that is a sentence.

 

[Carch]

I've never heard of conditioners causing build on filters before could anyone clarify on this? As too what maybe cause build up?

I wouldn't worry about it unless you use Top Fin, and you should be fine so long as you slightly underdose. As said in my original post, I really have no personal experience with any brands other than API (as in, I haven't used any other brands in my own tanks, though I have worked with other brands).

I do highly recommend API, it's a wonderful brand and I've had great success with it. My mom used API products for her fish when I was small, so I just stayed loyal to the company since I grew up with it.

Top Fin I would definitely stay away from. I have dealt with Tetra's water products a few times and their quality seemed poor as well, but take my word with a grain of salt because I have not dealt with Tetra over a long period of time.

 

[aXio]

mg: skimmer! :grinno:

all kidding aside... lenny has been pretty much bashing the "best dechlorinator on the market" (prime) according to most aquarists posting on the web. and did suggest top fin. if my opinion were to be at complete liberty of that product it certainly would speak for itself. i'm not sure my complete opinion would be welcomed on this forum, therefore i will spare my efforts and the mods time.

:nutkick: top fin... and yes that is a sentence.

\

Caught me! I'm at work so I'm tring to follow along as best I can with out ticking off the boss man =)

I wouldn't worry about it unless you use Top Fin, and you should be fine so long as you slightly underdose. As said in my original post, I really have no personal experience with any brands other than API (as in, I haven't used any other brands in my own tanks, though I have worked with other brands).

I do highly recommend API, it's a wonderful brand and I've had great success with it. My mom used API products for her fish when I was small, so I just stayed loyal to the company since I grew up with it.

Top Fin I would definitely stay away from. I have dealt with Tetra's water products a few times and their quality seemed poor as well, but take my word with a grain of salt because I have not dealt with Tetra over a long period of time.

It does actually worry me because according to some people most water conditioners are comprised of the exact same chemicals