Mafia 81: The Bloody Coup

I wanted to pull the before and after 2H's RC votes to compare. I added UN's vote in there (hadn't been made at the time of Ice's vote count but was made before 2H made his RC).



The final vote count:


What I find most concerning looking at this vote count and who was posting around nightfall is LG did not move to Bally. She was posting before and after nightfall yet if Bally had moved to save herself it would have gone to a coin flip between her and 2H (who was a known innocent PR by that point). The ONLY reason I can think that LG would not have moved was because she wanted to see a known PR have the chance to be lynched.

Piglet is another that should have moved if he were really pro town, but his grasp of the game is questionable at best so I don't know what to make of his parking on Zaffy and not moving to save a known innocent PR.
Yes, Labby I was here before and after nightfall.

As I have said I have family here...so no I wasn't here and watching the entire time everything was going on. I was popping in and out but I couldn't just sit here in front of the computer while everyone else was outside with the fire.
 
sorry for my non posting guys, but I have been trying to read up. I will have more time tomorrow to read some more. I do have one question though, where has UN been? Is he just not here tonight? I haven't yet seen why he made that statement about the post and a freak out and was wanting to see if he had anything else to say... I will follow up tomorrow, I believe I will have some time during work (at least lunchtime) and then after. I will need to vote early though, because I willl be out for the night... just a heads up more or less..... nice work guys and again, my apologies for being little help this far.
 
Wow! OK...I can understand the retractions from 2H obviously but another train so quick?

I know this comment is now being questioned, but I can see why Dawg made it at the time it was posted. It did seem like a quick shunt of votes to Bally, but turns out they were well deserved votes.

Makes sense to me, Noods. Your team got caught off guard by 2H's surprise role claim and deciding to nail Wizard. With no time to deliberate and knowing she'd flip scum, her voting you is supposed to clear you.

Bad luck for your team... a wonderful development for the town, IMO.

I'm finding myself in agreement with Kash here. Noods' play has struck me as scummy from the start, but like Bally, it's primarily a gut feeling. Her original reaction to Kash seemed like a scummy Noods reaction, not an innocent Noods reaction. Nothing concrete, just a feeling, but I'm leaning Noods as scum.

Who are the others?

LG and Noods. Before I went back and read, it was just gut feeling, but looking at how LG did not move to prevent a possible coin flip situation with 2H possibly getting the lynch, I'm happy to call her scum now. At this point, I think that is where my vote will land. Now I don't see a connection with her and Wiz or Bally, so I'm thinking she's likely CIA scum.

Zaffy is giving me a scummy vibe as well. Not enough that I'm going to vote for him yet. He garnered my original vote because of that scummy feeling, dropping his vote and running, and the fact that no one was voting Bally (my greatest scum feeling) and numbers wise there was a better chance to lynch Zaffy and get 2H out of the noose. That is also why I said if anyone felt how I felt about Bally, I would gladly change to her.

I'm not talking about the people on 2H. Apparently they weren't around. What I'm wondering is why all the other supposed innocents who were on before nightfall were OK with 2H being tied for the lynch vote. I wasn't OK with it even being close so I moved my vote to Bally. There were other ways to save 2H then to wait and see if people moved their votes off. I took that opportunity and ended up lynching another scum. I understand it doesn't totally clear me because of the CIA team but I would say the move to save 2H does help me. If I was CIA I would have let 2H hang or at least the possibility of hanging in a 3 way tie.

This post makes sense to me. If Dawg hadn't moved, not only would it not have been close, it would have been a coin flip. How anyone can claim to be pro-town while letting a known PR risk a coin flip by not moving their vote escapes me. Totally makes sense for scum not to move and hope that the coin flip did not go the town's way.

That would be an excelent excuse for an evil. "I moved to safe the important guy" just sounds like something an evil would do, predicting that someone else would try it, but wanting to be first. Once you had done it, no one else could for the same reason.

Yes, it could be an excellent excuse for an evil. But if you look at how the votes fell, and that Bally could have moved to save herself and get 2H lynched if she'd realized it makes me lean Dawg towards the innocent side.

I've been trying. just having trouble getting a grasp on what's going on. last night i got caught up in other things.

one thing that caught my eye is rich. I'm on my phone so i cant multi quote, but his comments about bally rub me as a little fluffy and slightly contradrictory. he deferred to LR stating that she started the case against bally. but he was the first to actually vote her. i know lr talked about bally, but i dont like how he made it seem like her followed her lead.

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Or do you not like it that Rich agreed with me that Bally seemed scummy? I explained my reasons for not voting for her initially, didn't want to waste a vote on a gut feeling if no one else felt how I felt. Not to mention, I did not want to waste a vote when a known townie PR was up for the lynch.

You know Dawg, yes it was a wonderful thing you did...and I am glad you did it, but the way you keep bringing it up, really makes one stop and wonder, it's like you are trying to keep it out there to prove you are innocent and don't want anyone to forget it.

I can think of a very good reason for a evil to do it....so they can do exactly what you are doing now, throwing it out there over and over to try and "clear" yourself because you did it.

That's the ONLY reason I can think an evil would do it. But that reason does not override the idea that if Dawg had not moved (like you did not move) then 2H's fate would have been left up to the coin, or he would have been lynched had Bally saved herself. Any evil would have wanted 2H gone.

You quoted Zaffy's post and directed the post to Pappy? Can you explain?

Trying to catch up after being away most of the day and am not too happy with all of the fluffy BS that is STILL going on!! :swear:

Besides Piglet and Tigger's crap, I'm not seeing much fluffy. Is the real reason for that angry smiley because the scum lost 2 last night?

I will say yes, Dawg gives me a bad vibe. I know he moved his vote to Bally and "saved" 2H...but he was the last to move and sealed the deal, that could easily been to clear himself, it was obvious Bally was going, if he hadn't moved I'm sure someone would of once the vote count was posted and everyone realized there was still a tie. Not sure if he is FBI, but it would be a good move to make it look as though he isn't if he is.

Sorry, from the way things went down, I doubt anyone else would have moved. Dawg made his move very close to nightfall to make sure 2H had a fighting chance if Bally moved.

My vote didn't seal any deal except for the fact that Bally didn't realize she could potentially save herself. I can understand her teammates not trying to save her and outing themselves but she really had nothing to lose. Again it was only 1 vote...not a landslide.

Again, I agree with this. It makes sense.

Lets see, several ppl voted in a row to Bally.....you, yourself said there was a train building on her. It looked to me she was going for sure, and I'd bet anything her and Wizard were sure she was going also. Granted there ended up only being a 1 vote difference between them, but most games what happened would be considered a train.
It was a quick shift in votes, not a landslide train. People moved to save a known townie PR. There was not much time. You act like it was a bad thing that people voted for Bally, makes me wonder why...
 
I wanted to pull the before and after 2H's RC votes to compare. I added UN's vote in there (hadn't been made at the time of Ice's vote count but was made before 2H made his RC).



The final vote count:


What I find most concerning looking at this vote count and who was posting around nightfall is LG did not move to Bally. She was posting before and after nightfall yet if Bally had moved to save herself it would have gone to a coin flip between her and 2H (who was a known innocent PR by that point). The ONLY reason I can think that LG would not have moved was because she wanted to see a known PR have the chance to be lynched.

Piglet is another that should have moved if he were really pro town, but his grasp of the game is questionable at best so I don't know what to make of his parking on Zaffy and not moving to save a known innocent PR.

It looks like Noods was around at nightfall, she could have switched also.

The other people in position to move and save the PR were: Chill, DD, Me, NPR.

Chill didn't post for 50 mins after nightfall, I was in at 69 mins. Neither of us had posts before night. (I was moving my fish tank yesterday, didn't finish until after night.)

Noods had a post 3 mins before night, she could have moved to keep 2H safe as well as LG.

Nothing on DD, she didn't post in proximity to nightfall that I saw.

I already talked about NPR.

Inaction isn't guilt, but they certainly were in a position to act pro-town and they either didn't take the opportunity, or they let it pass.
 
This is odd. What if she's on a team and they were counting on me being able to participate better, so they were talking about how to set me up. That could explain why she had me on her mind when she made her post. Could be a slip.

Care for any aluminum foil?

Actually Zaffy, that isn't such a bad theory. I could see them sacrificing you for the benefit of their team. Don't tell me you wouldn't take one for your team.

I think it was pure OMGUS. He's a newbie playing a newbie game.

Yes, that is my thought too. His grasp on the game thus far is pretty marginal from what I can discern.

Yes, Labby I was here before and after nightfall.

As I have said I have family here...so no I wasn't here and watching the entire time everything was going on. I was popping in and out but I couldn't just sit here in front of the computer while everyone else was outside with the fire.

I understand that. Can you explain your posts about how Dawg's move wasn't necessary as someone else would have moved? Why didn't you move? The only other person on Zaffy was Piglet so it wasn't like your vote on Zaffy had the potential to save 2H.

sorry for my non posting guys, but I have been trying to read up. I will have more time tomorrow to read some more. I do have one question though, where has UN been? Is he just not here tonight? I haven't yet seen why he made that statement about the post and a freak out and was wanting to see if he had anything else to say... I will follow up tomorrow, I believe I will have some time during work (at least lunchtime) and then after. I will need to vote early though, because I willl be out for the night... just a heads up more or less..... nice work guys and again, my apologies for being little help this far.

Glad you showed up, I was just wondering where you were.

It looks like Noods was around at nightfall, she could have switched also.

The other people in position to move and save the PR were: Chill, DD, Me, NPR.

Chill didn't post for 50 mins after nightfall, I was in at 69 mins. Neither of us had posts before night. (I was moving my fish tank yesterday, didn't finish until after night.)

Noods had a post 3 mins before night, she could have moved to keep 2H safe as well as LG.

Nothing on DD, she didn't post in proximity to nightfall that I saw.

I already talked about NPR.

Inaction isn't guilt, but they certainly were in a position to act pro-town and they either didn't take the opportunity, or they let it pass.

Both LG and Noods are high on my leaning scum list. I specifically made sure to check who was posting immediately before and immediately after nightfall to be able to say who was around in time to move. Already discussed Piglets (lack of) game.
 
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Zaffy is giving me a scummy vibe as well. Not enough that I'm going to vote for him yet. He garnered my original vote because of that scummy feeling, dropping his vote and running, and the fact that no one was voting Bally (my greatest scum feeling) and numbers wise there was a better chance to lynch Zaffy and get 2H out of the noose. That is also why I said if anyone felt how I felt about Bally, I would gladly change to her.



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Or do you not like it that Rich agreed with me that Bally seemed scummy? I explained my reasons for not voting for her initially, didn't want to waste a vote on a gut feeling if no one else felt how I felt. Not to mention, I did not want to waste a vote when a known townie PR was up for the lynch.



...

You mentioned this before, I just wanted to let you know I didn't intend to "vote and run" but I really just threw out my vote because I didn't want to UD. I voted in the morning before work, I knew I'd be home late because I had to get my 20g from my old house. My reason to vote was awful, and even hypocritical. But, it happened. I'm sorry my participation so far has sucked.

I've been skimming like DD on the metro this game. So, who said what and when is very hazy to me. I know you and rich both mentioned Bally. I haven't gone back and looked at the times, but the fact that you both were keen on getting Bally tells me that you're either on my side, or you're CIA. My earlier comment against Rich was just a feeling I got.

I'm seeing a better case against LG than anyone right now. It's all very circumstantial, but she's my top pick at the moment.
 
Lab_Rat;2489746[COLOR=Blue said:
]Actually Zaffy, that isn't such a bad theory. I could see them sacrificing you for the benefit of their team. Don't tell me you wouldn't take one for your team.
[/COLOR]


Yes, that is my thought too. His grasp on the game thus far is pretty marginal from what I can discern.



I understand that. Can you explain your posts about how Dawg's move wasn't necessary as someone else would have moved? Why didn't you move? The only other person on Zaffy was Piglet so it wasn't like your vote on Zaffy had the potential to save 2H.



Glad you showed up, I was just wondering where you were.



Both LG and Noods are high on my leaning scum list. I specifically made sure to check who was posting immediately before and immediately after nightfall to be able to say who was around in time to move. Already discussed Piglets (lack of) game.

Absolutely I would. Especially, knowing that I'll be away most of the weekend. But, I'm not on a team, so here I sit, still alive and kicking.
 
That's the ONLY reason I can think an evil would do it. But that reason does not override the idea that if Dawg had not moved (like you did not move) then 2H's fate would have been left up to the coin, or he would have been lynched had Bally saved herself. Any evil would have wanted 2H gone.

It was a quick shift in votes, not a landslide train. People moved to save a known townie PR. There was not much time. You act like it was a bad thing that people voted for Bally, makes me wonder why...
If Dawg and Bally were on the same team moving to her when it looked like she was going to go anyway, made him look great that was my point...I'm sorry I can see him doing it. Yes, evil would want him gone, but they also would of wanted to not be noticed and able to be called out.

I am not acting like it was a bad thing that votes moved. I simply am saying just because Dawg did, does not clear him.
 
Actually Zaffy, that isn't such a bad theory. I could see them sacrificing you for the benefit of their team. Don't tell me you wouldn't take one for your team.

I understand that. Can you explain your posts about how Dawg's move wasn't necessary as someone else would have moved? Why didn't you move? The only other person on Zaffy was Piglet so it wasn't like your vote on Zaffy had the potential to save 2H.
I left the part to Zaff in to make a point here, do you not think Bally wouldn't take one for the team? Having Dawg move to her and not moving to save herself...sounds like a good way to help out the team when you think it is going down.

I didn't mean it wasn't necessary, but I'm sure had he not moved someone else may have. Yes, I am glad he did it as I have said already. I didn't move because I wasn't here the entire time watching everything...I saw the vote count and she was in the lead, and actually didn't think about the fact she could of moved to save herself. I was hurrying each time I poked my head in. Had I realized that I would of moved.
 
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