Mafia #90-The Split

[Kashta]

I barely avoided that UD and have some catching up to do. Will start at the beginning.

Lady G, there're a few things I'm not sure of about the rules and roles:

You didn't post a nightfall sequence of events. Is that something you can tell us? How many hits or turns will there be every night? What happens if both scum teams try to hit or turn the same player the same night? Do they cancel each other out?

Were the 2 Dons assigned at random, random/tweaked, or selected?

Your writeup says the blackmailer gets to stop someone's vote. Does that mean that's all they can do is stop or block a vote? Blackmailer's usually get to control another player's vote by forcing them to vote against someone specific.

 

[Kashta]

Also for Lady G:

The Rules:

1) Game members only please in this thread. Watching is encouraged, but please do not post ideas, theories, or anything else. You could of have signed up, and are more then welcome to sign up for the next one.

2) This is a game, what is said in the game stays in the game. There will be accusations, incrimination's, ect...but it's a game. If anyone gets to personal, they will be removed from the game.

Never take things to a personal level, this is a game for entertainment only, play with enthusiasm not hate.

3) When night is called do not post until game on is called.

Game Mechanics

1) Each day everyone in the town will vote to lynch someone for nightfall. Vote by stating in bold "I vote to lynch...", you can retract your vote by stating in bold "I retract my vote for..." You can not vote yourself or "no one".

2) Whoever has the most votes is lynched, in the event of a tie there will be no lynch.

3) If you do not post in a 24 hour time period you will UD.

4) Everything stays in the game, no PMing people and setting up deals or alliances. No discussing issues outside of the game...exception is those who are allowed to communicate.

5) You can claim anything in the game, but it can not be proven with my PM.

If anyone has any questions or concerns PM me, and I will address it.

The win :

Innocents win: When all mafia are eliminated.

Mafia win: In this game it will be different then others. With two teams of mafia, the two teams are not in communication with each other and each want to take over the town. So only once your team out numbers the innocent and your team would control the lynch do you win. It will be possible for only mafia to remain, as they need to take innocents AND the other mafia team to win.

Rule 1 says we have to vote which is pretty standard. But the only mention of a UD is in Rule 3 where it says we have to post within the 24 hour period. It doesn't actually say we UD if we don't vote........ that's also what made me ask about the sequence of nightfall events. Would you clarify that for us that any "no vote" results in a UD?

 

[Kashta]

Alright, it's late and I've been through the posts too many times. I'll post up the ones I've pulled for comment and I might have to place a vote before going to sleep.... just in case. I may not get up early enough to do that in the morning. I also never know if I'll be able to sneak on from work at all and I seldom get a chance to be here during nightfall anymore.

But first, this one....

thats just pathetic... just pathetic... I would feel sorry for them, but thats still pathetic. How do you manage to UD in a game where all you have to do is post once in 24 hours? honestly? Ninja's gonna hear this for the rest of his life...

Still, I have to admit, that's a funny way to die...

You know, FF... I really don't appreciate you taking that tone. It's very easy to UD in a game where it normally takes 48 hours to UD for not voting in time. I don't know about everyone else, but I've never seen this 24 hour rule in force before -- and -- Lady G said nothing about us having a short posting deadline like that in the sign up thread BEFORE the game started. If you're not here to see the game thread when it first appeared, how would you know there was a deadline at all??????

When this game thread was created, I was already at work... and Monday mornings are very hectic for me. It's only by luck that I didn't UD too because of that.

I understand being unsympathetic towards regular UDs because they don't bother to vote within 48 hours. That just isn't the same circumstance. I fail to see where you come off ridiculing others like this over something they probably didn't know about.

 

[Kashta]

As for my vote, I've read and reread the exchanges between Bally and several others. I'm inclined to agree with what Star pointed out that Bally seems to be acting the way she does when she's scum. At least, her posts have me leaning her more likely scum than innocent or neutral at this point.

I vote to lynch Bally.

There isn't a whole lot to go on and that seems to be the best vote placement I can find this early.

I read another post Bally made which made me say, hey... wait a minute. That doesn't sound right. In that post, Bally included this post made by Star (below).

Ok, this is bugging the heck out of me. Bally is voting for GL for reasons highlighted in red. Did she not read the post GL made that she is using to condemn him? (going to go with him since idk the gender of GL) I took the liberty of highlighting where GL even says 4 innocent UDs. Me thinks Bally didn't even read GL's post, just took an opportunity to jump on him, hoping others would follow. There were 10 minutes between GL's post and Bally's post that followed.

In response to that, Bally explained why she thought there were only 3 dead innocents.

I read "2 PRs and a good player" and chalked it up to 3, I've been a very naughty girl and skimmed :nilly:

So Bally...... the "real" reason you miscounted was because you skimmed. Hmm.

Had this been all that was in the thread, I might not question this. However, I've just read your earlier post that shows you were at the site/game thread when Lady G posted the UD death scene.

The town hearing the screams, run toward the sound...finding the pants of them all, they recognize the vast of scotch as Wizards, and the three other pants..

Wizard was innocent and the thief

UN was innocent

Pir was innocent and the Detective

Ninja was an innocent

And here is your actual reaction to us losing 4 innocents...... not 3.

Wow...just wow.

This doesn't ring true to me now. First, Bally reacted to the actual event....... as it happened. But later when questioned about that, she claimed she messed up the number because she "skimmed" someone else's post much later on.

Bally, did you skim Lady G's death post too?

Your reaction to the UD event may not have been real strong (uh, wow...), but it was timely. And you obviously saw that 4 innocents died because you reacted to Lady G's post with a response post of your own. For that reason, I can't say I believe your "skimming" rationale.

That, along with the rest from Bally bickering about how many lines it takes to display a short post on an iPod and all.... I just don't see Bally being pro-town thus far.

 

[Kashta]

Someone has to do the work in this game, building cases on people who look scummy and trying to sort out who is scum from who is townie. Would you rather I sit back and not jump on things that strike me as scummy?

Also, what did Bally do a good job on correcting? Did you fail to notice that she admitted to skimming the very post she used for her reason for voting for GL? That she failed to retract her vote, even knowing nightfall wasn't until tomorrow night.

You say she kicked the wrong bush, what bush was that? Throwing a vote on someone whose post she didn't even bother to read?

Although I agree with Star on some points in regards to Bally, I am still a little concerned about one phrase from Star that really stood out for me.

"Building cases" on players because they "look scummy" is a totally opportunistic way to play.... and that's often a scum-tell in itself.

 

[Kashta]

These are some other posts I feel warrant a comment.

I don't think Bally would pick FF nor do I think FF would pick Bally.... could both of them be dons on each side, sure.....

I agreed with that when I read it. Then I agreed with DD and others when it was discussed a bit more, which left me unresolved about it.

This is post that followed which concerns me more than the rest.

Do you think either of them are scum? Who do you think they would pick?

Zaffy seems to think it's a good idea for us to really get into speculation mode. Not a good direction for us to take for the town's sake, if you ask me.

I would think FF would definitely pick Gold or Star..... regardless of the bantering of today

DD replied to Zaffy too.... and I suspect that's what Zaffy was trying to accomplish.

On that point, DD, I'd have to say I disagree with your statement. There are 3 aliases in the game. I seriously doubt anyone as Don would choose someone totally unknown to them under an alias as their first (only?) turn opportunity before they get a chance to evaluate alias players based on game posting.

 

[Fishfriend1]

Not tunnel visioned, you are also in my sight. For all I know, GL could be scum too. All I know is my role. And yes, I meant bad job of correcting, so what did she even try to correct? I saw a bunch of excuses then a final admittance that she couldn't even be bothered to read the post that she decided to vote for GL over. I did not leap on her for voting GL. I leapt on her for voting for a post she admitted to not even reading, for not even bothering to read we were down 4 innocents, for saying we were only down 3 innocents, for already throwing excuses out there, and for not providing any satisfactory answers to any of my questions that would make me think she was less scummy. It didn't matter to me that it was GL she voted for for the crappy reasons, if it had been anyone I would still think her methods and reasoning were scummy.

well.... that is very convincing.... I can see your reasoning, trust me on that, I see how scummy bally looks from that perspective... but that part where you and GL practically worked as a team still gives me the creeps... big time creeps...

Yeah, but that wouldn't explain why FF is being so protective of Bally. I would think that both scum teams would want to take each other out, not protect each other. That is unless for some warped reason FF would want to keep members of the other scum team around for a while.

but then again thinking more about this post, I wouldn't put it past FF either

That is why I said it would be a warped reason. :rofl:

You people are so mean... seriously, am I that bad a player? I definitely want mafia dead, all the mafia.

Alright, it's late and I've been through the posts too many times. I'll post up the ones I've pulled for comment and I might have to place a vote before going to sleep.... just in case. I may not get up early enough to do that in the morning. I also never know if I'll be able to sneak on from work at all and I seldom get a chance to be here during nightfall anymore.

But first, this one....

You know, FF... I really don't appreciate you taking that tone. It's very easy to UD in a game where it normally takes 48 hours to UD for not voting in time. I don't know about everyone else, but I've never seen this 24 hour rule in force before -- and -- Lady G said nothing about us having a short posting deadline like that in the sign up thread BEFORE the game started. If you're not here to see the game thread when it first appeared, how would you know there was a deadline at all??????

When this game thread was created, I was already at work... and Monday mornings are very hectic for me. It's only by luck that I didn't UD too because of that.

I understand being unsympathetic towards regular UDs because they don't bother to vote within 48 hours. That just isn't the same circumstance. I fail to see where you come off ridiculing others like this over something they probably didn't know about.

They had 24 hours to look into the thread, even if was just to post a "yay, game on". They also had plenty of warning as to when the game would start. I see no reason for them to not have posted at least once in that time frame. I may have been a little harsh (ok, a lot), but we lost 2 PRs and 2 townies, that's a pretty devastating blow for the town, don't you think? (hypothetical) I was just upset that they UD'd on us.

 

[Fishfriend1]

Geez. Hope everything's ok guys. Still though, nothing like making the game neigh on impossible to win. And only 24 hours after the start too.

Where not you the one who said rules where rules. Now the UDs bother you?

This is where Rich poked at Gold_Leader

Of course it bothers me. How could it not? Four townies are dead, including 2 prs and a good player, and the scumbags didn't have to lift a finger. And yes, I also believe that there was no choice but to go by the stated rules. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Gold Leader's response ^^

I have a final tonight, so I won't be around for nightfall so I'm going to place my vote.
I vote to lynch Gold Leader [\B] for being nonchalant about "rules are rules" and calmy watching as 3 people UD'd and turned up innocent b

I vote to lynch gold leader and I will be around for nightfall tomorrow. Thought it was tonight

Bally's vote, excuse, canceling of the excuse, and miscount with the # of UDs

It's always nice to get a vote, but I have a coupla little questions; if I may.

1. Nightfall isn't until tomorrow night, so what has tonight's final got to do with anything?
2. Nonchalant about rules are rules... WTF?... these games have rules for a reason. If we go changing them willy-nilly just because we feel like it, then there's no need for them at all. I hate to sound like RB, but there is no other way than to follow the rules once posted. LG went further than I would have by extending the deadline for the UDs.
3. Unless my kindergarten math skills have totally left me, 4 people UD'd, not three.
4. You didn't bold your vote.

Anything else?

By my count, it was 4 innocents who UDed...

Considering I fixed my post seconds after I realized my mistake, why were you so quick to be defensive and not see my second post.

I'm more confident of my vote now.

Both Star and Gold see this, and question Bally about it. Bally claims to have fixed the mistake.

Already throwing out excuses. When Bally starts throwing out excuses that is generally a scum tell for her.

Star already starts with scum tells. Pretty early in the game to get this serious, but we had just lost 4 townies, so Star was likely still upset about that.

I didn't see you fix your mis-counting mistake. Can you please show me where you did so?

Not a excuse it was an explanation, and one that doesnt matter anyway since I mixed my days up.

I didn't fix the miscount, nor did I claim to. I fixed the day mix up and the bold issue.

Bally attempts to explain away what happened.

I was busily posting while you fixed it. Why stick with a BS vote even though now you know you'll be here for nightfall? Interesting to me that Rich starts out pointing a general finger, and you come in and follow it up with a vote which you're now "more confident" about. Be confident all you want, it won't make you right. I actually agree with Star here... I'm picking up the slightest hint of scum. Time to stand up wind.

Gold agrees with Star, "hint of scum".

Sure sounded like an excuse to me...

Had I not said anything about potentially missing a nightfall I'd be questioned if I wasn't there and I'm being questioned for saying I wouldn't be there. If you want to see it as an excuse you will. The question is why do you want it to be?

I'd still like to get an answer to my question: IE: why do you feel the need to vote so early when you now know you'll be around for nightfall? Especially to go so far as to say you're feeling confident in your vote with so little to go on from anyone?

Bally again explains why she gave her excuse for not being here that night. Why she voted early is also stated. Gold conveniently ignores that.

Will continue my look back in next post.

 

[Fishfriend1]

Ok, this is bugging the heck out of me. Bally is voting for GL for reasons highlighted in red. Did she not read the post GL made that she is using to condemn him? (going to go with him since idk the gender of GL) I took the liberty of highlighting where GL even says 4 innocent UDs. Me thinks Bally didn't even read GL's post, just took an opportunity to jump on him, hoping others would follow. There were 10 minutes between GL's post and Bally's post that followed.

I don't want it to be anything. I call things as I see them. Right now I am seeing scum in your posts.

I read "2 PRs and a good player" and chalked it up to 3, I've been a very naughty girl and skimmed :nilly:

Bally admits to skimming the post she used to condemn Gold_Leader. IMO, a dumb comment. Could be a scum tell, but I doubt that it is. Yet, anyway.

Yet you were confident in placing a vote on someone's post that you now admit you skimmed? We've lost 4 innocents through UD, there is no room for error, I'd think people would be a little more careful in how they place their votes, especially if they think they won't be around for nightfall.

Yes I should have. But at the time when I thought I was going to miss nightfall I need to vote. My final is 6:00-9:00 with a 30 minute commute and I was under the impression I had to vote then. Another innocent UD would hurt the town much more than a rushed vote IMO.

Here Bally states that she didn't want to UD. I think that by this point she was completely confused, because she didn't realize that you don't have to vote this game, just show up. Maybe scum trying to survive and failing, more likely an innocent townie who just got confused and is trying to defend themself.

Even if you leave at 5 pm to get there well ahead of time, your excuse makes no sense as to why you skimmed a 2 line post. Even for a slow reader, that post wouldn't take more than 25 seconds to read (for comprehension not skim), and you voted well before the 5 pm leaving time before your exam. Not to mention, you obviously have mobile access seeing as you're posting from the mobile skin. I think you saw Rich poking at GL and thought him an easy target to drop a vote on. Total scum move.
I vote to lynch Bally.

on my screen it's 3 lines.. lol, 5 sentences still isn't that big a post. Now, while I do agree fully that, if what you say is true, Bally pulled off a very scummy thing, I have to doubt it slightly. Your to sure of yourself here. But I am looking at Bally more carefully now then I was before. If I took what you said and chose to believe it, I would probably be voting for Bally as well. We'll see what I think when I'm done my investigation.

This isn't quite a 2 line post Star. Glad you voted though before someone else crept into your tunnel vision!

What do you call it? Looks like two lines to me. I just don't see where you're coming from here, Bally.

It's 5 lines on my screen

Yeah, it is 2 lines.

Now if someone comes in more scummy than you have, I have no qualms changing my vote. Chances of that happening are not great though, each post you make you look scummier.

The Great Line Debate! What a waste of time, it all depends on the person looking at it, the size of their screen, that stuff. Lines mean nothing.

Again, will continue in next post.

 

[Zaffy]

These are some other posts I feel warrant a comment.



I agreed with that when I read it. Then I agreed with DD and others when it was discussed a bit more, which left me unresolved about it.

This is post that followed which concerns me more than the rest.



Zaffy seems to think it's a good idea for us to really get into speculation mode. Not a good direction for us to take for the town's sake, if you ask me.



DD replied to Zaffy too.... and I suspect that's what Zaffy was trying to accomplish.

On that point, DD, I'd have to say I disagree with your statement. There are 3 aliases in the game. I seriously doubt anyone as Don would choose someone totally unknown to them under an alias as their first (only?) turn opportunity before they get a chance to evaluate alias players based on game posting.

I asked that in response to what was already speculation. DD has said:

I don't think Bally would pick FF nor do I think FF would pick Bally.... could both of them be dons on each side, sure.....

So I wanted to know who DD did think would be chosen as a team since she didn't think they would pick each other.