Why Animals Don't Have Rights

[Pearl]

After reading all twelve pages, I'd like to correct a few misconceptions.

First, the B12 found in supplement form is made with fermented bacteria. In nature, microorganisms in the gut convert cobalt to B12 (cobalamin). Most herbivores are ruminants (cattle, goats, deer, sheep, bison, giraffe, etc.) or modified ruminants (the camelids) that have multi-chambered stomachs, one being the rumen where cud is produced and the cobalt to B12 conversion takes place. The B12 then passes into the small intestine where it is absorbed. For other herbivores (elephants, equines, lagomorphs, etc.) this conversion takes place in the caecum or blind gut, which is found at the juncture where the stomach and the small intestine meet. In humans, this conversion takes place in the large intestine and the B12 is excreted. This is why we must get B12 from either animal sources or from supplements.

Second, crops can't be grown everywhere. Most regions can't support any large-scale crop production (New England, for example.) Roughly 25% of all the land on this planet is arable. That's it. And most of this arable land can't be used to grow crops all year long because of climate (i.e., winter). That's why most of the nuts, fruits and vegetables found in North American grocery stores are grown in California, Mexico, Florida and Arizona.

Third, there will be no sustainable agriculture without animals. That is a fact. Not only do animals provide us with food. They also provide us with a renewable source of fertilizer and play a vital role in field rotation. Some animals (chickens, ducks, geese) can also be used to control pests and weeds.

Anyone who's interested in learning how unsustainable, chemical fertilizers are made can go here... http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-haber-bosch-process.htm

And now I must go milk my goats. Peace.

 

[Fishfriend1]

Well Travis I give up. I really tried. Print these pages, put them away for 25 years and then re-read them. Hopefully I'll be around to hear what you think then.

Okay, let me try to look at this the way I think you are saying it is: Each person defines what is right, therefore no person should dictate the rights of another person. Am I there? Or at least close?

 

[Rbishop]

It doesn't matter how close you are Travis, the Op just wants confirmation that their belief/standpoint is the only one correct and that all others have some fallacy. Their viewpoint, and arguements are no different than other's presented here, and has just as many fallacies when viewed from a different perspective.

 

[SubRosa]

Ah, i see.



Sacasm doesn't become you any more then it becomes me.



Same to you, we just don't seem to understand each other... and can you call me Siv instead?



No just possable, but definite. Factual. Oil is a Non-Renewable-Resource, and within MY lifetome we could very well run out. Within my childrens lifetime? Who knows, qwe could have alreayd gone extict by then. We only get one chance. We used up all of earths natural resources. There is no more coal to fuel and industrial revolution, no more oil to recreate the automobile age, no more metals to build skyscrapers out of, not in easy access. When/if human civilazation falls, it will never rise again. We get one chance, and that chance is during our lifetomes. So yes, if it means my generation can NOT be dead by the time I'm 30, then yes, I will give up that PC (Though it uses nuclear power, which is cool), yes I will give up that car (already saving for a hybrid/electric/Preus), and yes, I may even give up my precious Big mac Meal from McDonals (Golden Arches rule!). So there, happy? Now if only more people would do that...



lol, amen to that!

I'm not going to bother correcting all the factual errors in your last post, although I will say that your contention that we have used up all the coal made beer come out of my nose. I hope my keyboard is ok! 25 years from now I doubt that I'll have changed my libertarian views much, because logic is logic. You on the other hand are far more likely to be a different person at 40+ than you are at 18. Life tends to work that way. But all of this is of small matter. The real purpose of this reply is to satisfy my curiosity. What is the significance of "Siv"? I could probably figure out "Vis" on my own, but your newly chosen handle has me baffled.

 

[Rbishop]

Let's not drag politics into it....thanks.

 

[Khemul]

No just possable, but definite. Factual. Oil is a Non-Renewable-Resource, and within MY lifetome we could very well run out. Within my childrens lifetime? Who knows, qwe could have alreayd gone extict by then. We only get one chance. We used up all of earths natural resources. There is no more coal to fuel and industrial revolution, no more oil to recreate the automobile age, no more metals to build skyscrapers out of, not in easy access. When/if human civilazation falls, it will never rise again. We get one chance, and that chance is during our lifetomes. So yes, if it means my generation can NOT be dead by the time I'm 30, then yes, I will give up that PC (Though it uses nuclear power, which is cool), yes I will give up that car (already saving for a hybrid/electric/Preus), and yes, I may even give up my precious Big mac Meal from McDonals (Golden Arches rule!). So there, happy? Now if only more people would do that...

That assumes that the development path humanity has taken is the only possible path. Who knows what direction a society that evolves without coal and oil would take. Oil is the main worry, since the coal and metals are not really used up. There are alternatives to oil and coal, so the only real issue is metal which isn't really destroyed so much as converted to other uses that'll still be there if society falls. It could be argued that metals would be easier to come by, since they would be all over the surface of the planet.

 

[Fishfriend1]

I'm not going to bother correcting all the factual errors in your last post, although I will say that your contention that we have used up all the coal made beer come out of my nose. I hope my keyboard is ok! 25 years from now I doubt that I'll have changed my libertarian views much, because logic is logic. You on the other hand are far more likely to be a different person at 40+ than you are at 18. Life tends to work that way. But all of this is of small matter. The real purpose of this reply is to satisfy my curiosity. What is the significance of "Siv"? I could probably figure out "Vis" on my own, but your newly chosen handle has me baffled.

Okay, so I exzaggerate, so do you, Mr. No Emotion. Siv: Sivart, Travis backward. Testing the name is all, I like it better then Travis.

Let's not drag politics into it....thanks.

Agreed... I don't need another ban, and I'm not even political... 17, can't vote yet.

That assumes that the development path humanity has taken is the only possible path. Who knows what direction a society that evolves without coal and oil would take. Oil is the main worry, since the coal and metals are not really used up. There are alternatives to oil and coal, so the only real issue is metal which isn't really destroyed so much as converted to other uses that'll still be there if society falls. It could be argued that metals would be easier to come by, since they would be all over the surface of the planet.

Where the matel can rust away more conveniently... but i see your point. But still, how many ways can a civilazation form, if it never has access to oil or other fossil fuels? Would it jump from animal power to solar, nuclear, wind, or hydro power? Hydro I can understand, you just build a big waterwheel and boom, hydropower. Make a windmill more davanced, wind power. But those can't be used everywhere, so it makes one wonder what such a civilazation would look like...

 

[platytudes]

Speaking of cud, this thread is resembling it more and more by the minute....

A discussion of the finiteness of fossil fuels and our eminent global destruction have very little to do with the OP's topic. I vote we either we get back to the discussion (specifically, I wish someone [OP?] would explain, or speculate on, what could possibly be gained by revoking animal welfare acts and laws) or we close this thread.

 

[spencerguy1]

Work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say primitive people were stupid. I said that in a primitive society stupid people rarely live long. You do understand the difference? And you do understand that Avatar was only a movie, right, and that movies aren't real, right?

sorry about that, i noticed that after i posted.

and i guess i also for got to put a smiley face after the Avatar part so you would know i was JUST JOKING. i like these threads because it is interesting to see what people think. i hate these threads for the reason that after about 10 pages of arguing people start flaming at each other. emotions definitely do make us stupid. and mean.

 

[petluvr]