german blue ram has a bent tail
- Thread starter bobsaget
- Start date
Yep. Doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just something you can house the fish in for 4-6 weeks, depending how long you quarantine.
Byron Amazonas
AC Members
I agree on the quarantine, but there is another equally important problem here, and that is non-compatibility of fish.
Paradise fish, presumably the anabantid Macropodus opercularis, is not a community fish. These should be kept alone, as a pair in a 30-inch tank. They will usually eat smaller fish, nip fins, and attack any similar-looking fish. Cichlids are similar to anabantids in many ways so this pairing should always be avoided.
As for ich, this is caused solely by stress, always. Fish will only sucumb to ich when they are stressed, and many factors cause stress. But having a "bully" in the tank is one of them. Even if no physical signs show, fish secrete pheromones and allomones which other fish can read, and this alone causes stress. In the confines of an aquarium, the fish can't escape.
If ich does show up again, the best and safest treatment here is raising the temperature to 86F minimum and nothing else for a week or two. The mentioned fish can manage with this (not all fish could, so this may not always work the berst). The ich will be killed as it cannot survive high temperatures. Salt at strengths sufficient to be effective will cause issues for soft water fish which these all are, and should never be used.
Hope this helps.
Byron.
Paradise fish, presumably the anabantid Macropodus opercularis, is not a community fish. These should be kept alone, as a pair in a 30-inch tank. They will usually eat smaller fish, nip fins, and attack any similar-looking fish. Cichlids are similar to anabantids in many ways so this pairing should always be avoided.
As for ich, this is caused solely by stress, always. Fish will only sucumb to ich when they are stressed, and many factors cause stress. But having a "bully" in the tank is one of them. Even if no physical signs show, fish secrete pheromones and allomones which other fish can read, and this alone causes stress. In the confines of an aquarium, the fish can't escape.
If ich does show up again, the best and safest treatment here is raising the temperature to 86F minimum and nothing else for a week or two. The mentioned fish can manage with this (not all fish could, so this may not always work the berst). The ich will be killed as it cannot survive high temperatures. Salt at strengths sufficient to be effective will cause issues for soft water fish which these all are, and should never be used.
Hope this helps.
Byron.
Maybe what he meant was that a stressed fish is more prone to ich than a non-stressed fish. But as authmal said it does have a documented life cycle which proves stress isnt the only factor in having ich in your tank.
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i did return the paradise fish. this guy knows a lot about fish usually, and i took his word for it. he described them as being the "king of the tank." but he said it'd be alright. you are suggesting that if i ever get ich again, not to use salt? i was under the assumption that not JUST heat will killl ich? anyways, the fish i listed went thru a salt treatment (1tsp a gallon) but if it were to happen again, and i shouldnt dose with salt, then i wouldnt.
Yes, technically the high temp has nothing to do with killing the ich other than it speeds up the life cycle. The salt itself is the key and really shouldn't be an issue with these fish, no more than being infected with ich...
Byron Amazonas
AC Members
My apology for not being clearer, I am used to posting on another forum where I became known after several years and sometimes the "background" could just be assumed.
On your (bobsaget) first question since my previous post, when I said stress caused ich what I meant to point out was that fish only succumb to ich (and most other diseases) when stressed. A healthy fish will fight off ich and much else. So the infectious agent must obviously be present but it is the stress to the fish that causes it to become a problem.
Ich or white spot is caused by Ichthyophthirius multifiliis which is a ciliated protozoan. There is now evidence that this protozoan is present in most aquaria. I know it is in mine. It is rarely visible, because it will first attack a fish in the gills where we can't see the white spot. A fish flashing against a plant leaf or something is usually a sign of this, though other factors cause flashing too. So the aim is to have stress-free fish. Newly acquired fish are usually under considerable stress. Stress is a huge topic in itself; I authored an article on this a year or so back. I don't know if I am permitted to post links to this because it is on another forum, but I can easily provide the article if asked.
Back to the ich and the temperature issue. Ich cannot live in warm temperatures, and scientific studies have now shown that in water kept at 86F for a week, ich will die out; a couple of sources will give 90F as the required temperature, but there is sufficient evidence that 86F works to use this first. So the easiest ich treatment is raising the temperature to no less than 86F, providing of course that the fish can tolerate this for a week or so. Many can, but some cannot. I have been successful with many wild-caught characins and corys and we all know that most corys do not appreciate temperatures this high, but they seem to cope. Many have tanks in the high 80's during summer heat waves, without losing fish.
So when it can be done, raising the temperature is the safest. Here we come to stress again; this obviously is going to cause a bit of stress, if it is outside the fish species' preferred range. But it is minimal compared to most medications that are copper-based or especially salt. I will never use salt in a freshwater aquarium with soft water fish. The "side effects" are serious indeed, and the stress (at the least) caused by salt to these fish is considerable. The fish may die, or they may not, but internal damage can easily be done. I have an article on salt if anyone is interested that goes into the physiological impacts on soft water fish.
I hope this explains things more clearly, but please ask if anything is still fuzzy. I always feel we have better success if we understand what is going on "behind the scenes" as it were.
Byron.
On your (bobsaget) first question since my previous post, when I said stress caused ich what I meant to point out was that fish only succumb to ich (and most other diseases) when stressed. A healthy fish will fight off ich and much else. So the infectious agent must obviously be present but it is the stress to the fish that causes it to become a problem.
Ich or white spot is caused by Ichthyophthirius multifiliis which is a ciliated protozoan. There is now evidence that this protozoan is present in most aquaria. I know it is in mine. It is rarely visible, because it will first attack a fish in the gills where we can't see the white spot. A fish flashing against a plant leaf or something is usually a sign of this, though other factors cause flashing too. So the aim is to have stress-free fish. Newly acquired fish are usually under considerable stress. Stress is a huge topic in itself; I authored an article on this a year or so back. I don't know if I am permitted to post links to this because it is on another forum, but I can easily provide the article if asked.
Back to the ich and the temperature issue. Ich cannot live in warm temperatures, and scientific studies have now shown that in water kept at 86F for a week, ich will die out; a couple of sources will give 90F as the required temperature, but there is sufficient evidence that 86F works to use this first. So the easiest ich treatment is raising the temperature to no less than 86F, providing of course that the fish can tolerate this for a week or so. Many can, but some cannot. I have been successful with many wild-caught characins and corys and we all know that most corys do not appreciate temperatures this high, but they seem to cope. Many have tanks in the high 80's during summer heat waves, without losing fish.
So when it can be done, raising the temperature is the safest. Here we come to stress again; this obviously is going to cause a bit of stress, if it is outside the fish species' preferred range. But it is minimal compared to most medications that are copper-based or especially salt. I will never use salt in a freshwater aquarium with soft water fish. The "side effects" are serious indeed, and the stress (at the least) caused by salt to these fish is considerable. The fish may die, or they may not, but internal damage can easily be done. I have an article on salt if anyone is interested that goes into the physiological impacts on soft water fish.
I hope this explains things more clearly, but please ask if anything is still fuzzy. I always feel we have better success if we understand what is going on "behind the scenes" as it were.
Byron.
Byron Amazonas
AC Members
