New Tank/Nitrifying Bacteria/Dr. Tim's

[LMOUTHBASS]

Hi everyone,

I finally set up my new 130 gallon yesterday with pool filter sand and will be hooking up the new Fluval X6 canister filter tonight.

I need to move my fish from my old place to this new tank as soon as possible. However, I do not want to bring any media from my old tank over. I was having some on and off against bacterial issues and while the fish are all seemingly healthy at the time being, and losses were minimal, yet annoying, I do not want to risk bringing diseased media over.

Obviously this causes a huge cycling issue. I found Dr. Tim's nitrifying bacteria online, and have done a fair amount of reading up on it and the reviews generally are all very good. I have a couple of bottles of it now. Has anyone used this stuff before? I of course understand that the cycle takes time to establish, however he claims to be able to add fish immediately with his special blend of bacteria that are guaranteed to be alive because of the type of bottle which put the bacteria into suspended animation until released into the tank.

I plan on using this in the hopes that it works as quickly as it says... one idea I also have and I was wondering if anyone has done this or thinks its a good idea... when I set up the canister filter tonight, I was thinking about pouring tons of bacteria all over the new filter media so that it quickly establishes in the filter instead of only pouring it into the water column (I'd pour it in both locations instead).

What is everyone's thoughts on this/experiences?

Going forward, I now have the space to set up a proper Q tank, so all future purchases will be quarantined properly. I want to try to keep my display tank as healthy as possible and avoid any similar problems in the future. I also have an American Aquariums UV sterilizer on the way which I will install only after my nitrifying bacterial colony is established.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Byron Amazonas]

My response is based upon experiences with products other than Dr. Tim's One and Only, plus some general observations. Bacterial supplements do work to "cycle" a new aquarium faster, there is no doubt about that, even though some will still call them "snake oil." But ones like Tetra's SafeStart (which was Dr. Tim Hovanec's first original formula that he sold to Tetra) and Seachem's Stability do work to establish the nitrifying bacteria. But this is a quickening of the cycling, not "instant cycled tank."

Dr. Hovanec has done considerable research in this field as a professional biologist/chemist, and he says that his current product, Dr. Tim's One and Only, is instant. I would certainly use this in your situation. And I agree, transferring filter media is dangerous at the best of times, and much more so if some pathogen is likely to be present. Obviously, these can be transferred with any wet object, including the fish, but there is no point in increasing the risk by moving over filter media, substrate, wood, rock, etc.

Another aspect of this is live plants. These grab ammonia even faster than nitrifying bacteria, so if you can toss in some floating plants that are healthy, you will increase significantly the success. This doesn't "cycle" per say, but it does mean the fish added to the new tank willnot be suffering from high ammonia if there are sufficient plants floating to use most of it, and the bacterial supplement the rest.

Byron.

 

[Mgamer20o0]

My response is based upon experiences with products other than Dr. Tim's One and Only, plus some general observations. Bacterial supplements do work to "cycle" a new aquarium faster, there is no doubt about that, even though some will still call them "snake oil." But ones like Tetra's SafeStart (which was Dr. Tim Hovanec's first original formula that he sold to Tetra) and Seachem's Stability do work to establish the nitrifying bacteria. But this is a quickening of the cycling, not "instant cycled tank."

Dr. Hovanec has done considerable research in this field as a professional biologist/chemist, and he says that his current product, Dr. Tim's One and Only, is instant. I would certainly use this in your situation. And I agree, transferring filter media is dangerous at the best of times, and much more so if some pathogen is likely to be present. Obviously, these can be transferred with any wet object, including the fish, but there is no point in increasing the risk by moving over filter media, substrate, wood, rock, etc.

Another aspect of this is live plants. These grab ammonia even faster than nitrifying bacteria, so if you can toss in some floating plants that are healthy, you will increase significantly the success. This doesn't "cycle" per say, but it does mean the fish added to the new tank willnot be suffering from high ammonia if there are sufficient plants floating to use most of it, and the bacterial supplement the rest.

Byron.

many of them are snake oil thats why but not all of them. side note dr tim was working for marinland when he came up with bio spria which was later renamed under the tetra brand also i believe they changed the forumla a little as well to no longer need to be refrigerated.

 

[Mgamer20o0]

if there is something in the media its in the water and the fish have it. i would just move the media over and be done with it.

 

[Windy]

Awwww, so none of these instant quote unquote tank cyclers are worth buying then?

 

[Byron Amazonas]

Awwww, so none of these instant quote unquote tank cyclers are worth buying then?

That is not what we are saying. Some do work to some extent, some may not, depending upon what one expects.

Dr. Hovanec led the team of scientists that determined the species of Nitrosomonas bacteria responsible for ammonia oxidation, and further the probable species of Nitrospira bacteria responsible for nitrite oxidation. Dr. Hovanec developed his own formula of "live bacteria," and there is not a doubt at all scientifically that this does introduce live nitrifying bacteria. He also tested other products like Nutrafin's Cycle, which do not contain the "true" nitrifying bacteria, and found that this product nevertheless does quicken the cycling by a few days, from which he concluded that the presence of any bacteria probably helped. However, up to this point, none of these products instantly cycled the aquarium.

With most of the bacterial supplements, they work by speeding up the colonization of nitrifying bacteria. In other words, these bacteria establish faster by using a bacterial supplement that without. Similar to "seeding" live bacteria via other means. However, Dr. Hovanec's most recent product, called Dr. Tim's One and Only, is stated to instantly cycle. I have never used this particular product, so I cannot say yea or nay; but Dr. Hovanec is a reputable biological chemist, and I have not come across any factual evidence that the product does not work.

You can of course avoid all this by using live plants and fish stocking very minimally. Another story.

I can provide links to the scientific papers for all this if asked, though I warn you, they are highly technical.

Byron.

 

[the wizard]

Since I personally have not done an actual side by side test, this is strictly my opinion. I do plan to do actual tests to verify this in the near future.

IMO there is no such thing as an "instant" cycle. Yes if there are live bacteria in the bottle it can and should help to speed up the cycle.

As Gamer stated, if it is in the media your fish have it. Use the media you have.

 

[LMOUTHBASS]

Ok since I started this thread and have now used the product I feel I should chime in!

I actually watched some videos done by an independent guy, who interviewed Tim himself and then put the product to the test. In the video Tim explains that essentially the other bottled bacteria do not work because they are the wrong type of bacteria, the type you might find in a water treatment center but they are not the specific nitrifying bacteria he uses.

The interviewer then began a Salt water tank 100 gallon tank I think with only two clown fish, and he concluded it had worked for him. So I was excited to try this. Tim also states that once you add his bacteria to the tank you need to begin by lightly stocking your tank so that there is a natural source of ammonia released by the fish for the bacteria to feed off of. You don't want to overwhelm your new colony too quickly by stocking too many so take it slow and let the bacteria multiply and catch up.

Additionally, Tim explains that his bacteria are able to survive for a few reasons. One is the type of bottle he uses protects the bacteria from light etc but the other, and its something most people never would consider is that the bacteria don't starve per se. He said the problem is that we think of bacteria like animals, if an animal doesn't eat, it dies. This isn't necessarily true for bacteria, since they are not animals. Basically, he says that when bacteria encounter situations where a food source is not available, and conditions are not right, they can enclose themselves in a protective cyst like cell wall in suspended animation until optimal conditions are again present. This makes sense to me because in nature, many amphibians do a similar type of thing, going into a deep freeze in the winter and then thawing out when the spring comes.

So on to my experience - FW tank 130 gallons, was sterilized with bleach, rinsed thoroughly etc, pool filter sand, no live plants initially. I got a big bottle of Tims, and dumped it into the tank, following the instructions. However, I also was setting up a brand new canister filter with fresh media and I decided to pour 3/4 of another bottle of Tims right into the filter media before screwing the top back on and priming the filter with water.

Did it work? I am going to be completely honest here and tell you that I am COMPLETELY AMAZED that this stuff worked like it said it would. SHOCKED. Its been a week, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite steady ph at 6.0

I've had problems cycling different tanks the past few years and wished I'd known about this stuff sooner. Basically, we've all heard people say that if you're starting a new tank, to just take some established media from an old tank and put it in your new filter and you instantly have a cycled tank. I think that's basically the idea here. Tims gives you all the good bacteria you are supposed to have, right away it seems.

Additional tid bits: I have nonetheless done a few small water changes (habitual, and didn't quite believe this stuff would work so I wanted to keep the tanks safe for the fish)

I also began by introducing only 4 fish.

I did not feed the fish for the first few days.

I have since introduced most of my entire stock and done two or three light feedings.

I test my water 2-3 times a day periodically to monitor fluctuations in water readings.

Every test, at a variety of different times, from early morning, to middle of the night, to an hour after feedings, has remained steady with zeroes across the board.

I have since added a bunch of Anubias, Moss and Sword plants.

I have however not tested Nitrates yet, which to me is the symbol of a truly cycled tank. I have to find my kit for that, but plan on doing so soon.

I also started a fresh 20 gallon long following the same procedures and have had the same exact results.

So, does it work? Count me in as a believer to this point. At this point if it didn't work, I'd have had tremendous fluctuations in ammonia levels after feeding and introducing additional fish to the tank increasing the bio load. Instead, I have had a normal cycled tank's response to additional bio load, where everything is processed and broken down quickly and converted into its next form. I ordered another bottle for another new tank that I will be setting up shortly.

 

[Star_Rider]

interesting, you mentioned your pH was 6.0?

at this pH the nitrifying bacteria are generally considered 'inhibited' meaning they tend to slow down and even halt functioning.. but on the flip side most free ammonia at this pH generally exist as ammonium..

I'm curious to see how this goes for you.. generally speaking in my tanks with pH below 6 I don't worry much about ammonia.. and am curious as in other forums where there is very low pH in tanks there is some research being done to see if there any bacteria that have adapted in the low pH.

 

[LMOUTHBASS]

Yes, the ph seems to be at about 6, but I suppose that could be open to interpretation as well. The API test kit shades can be difficult to decipher some times. I could be a little over 6 depending on how one views the shade of the water in the test tube.

However, the tank has shown no ammonia whatsoever, or nitrite. I did test nitrate last night as well and that was 0 at this point. I'm wondering if either the plants I've added have sucked it up before it accumulates or if there has been no cycling at all... but my guess would be that, if there were no bacteria consuming wastes in the tank I'd have to have ammonia accumulating at this point, from the fish themselves giving off ammonia.

So far so good I guess. I did have cloudy water last night, this could have been from me moving plants around in the new sand as well, but still had good readings, everything was 0, although it looked like ammonia may have hit .25, my biggest complaint with the API kit is that the difference between 0 and .25 is sometimes difficult to determine. It was just a touch lighter than the typical yellow 0 reading though.

Anyhow, water cleared up this morning, and I'll check readings again after work.

interesting, you mentioned your pH was 6.0?

at this pH the nitrifying bacteria are generally considered 'inhibited' meaning they tend to slow down and even halt functioning.. but on the flip side most free ammonia at this pH generally exist as ammonium..

I'm curious to see how this goes for you.. generally speaking in my tanks with pH below 6 I don't worry much about ammonia.. and am curious as in other forums where there is very low pH in tanks there is some research being done to see if there any bacteria that have adapted in the low pH.