Starting Back Up Again...Questions About Using Seachem Stability

[Kaskade10729]

I don't see the logic in getting starter (gold)fish when you can just add household ammonia and test. Besides all the diseases goldfish can carry read this: http://injaf.org/aquarium-fish/the-goldfish-section/what-size-tank-for-goldfish/

I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers here; I suppose my "logic" in getting starter fish was to introduce some ammonia and other elements that can help with the cycle (once they begin producing waste). I am well aware of the so-called "diseases" goldfish can carry, but I have a lot of experience with fancy goldfish, and always cared for them properly without major issues, for the most part; plus, we don't intend on introducing those "feeder" goldfish that are usually riddled with health issues, but rather small fancies that are healthier and heartier.

At any rate, we were going to go to our local Petco, which has a nice selection of clean tanks and healthy-looking fish, to pick up a couple of starters, but my wife wasn't feeling well, so we canceled. Once the tank is fully ready, I intend on buying some nice exotic fantails from an independent shop not too far from us, but that's after things get more cycled. I added a couple of caps of Prime this morning, along with the Stability dosing, because I thought it would aid in the introduction for the fish, but, as I said, we didn't get any.

 

[the loach]

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other here; or maybe I didn't explain myself well enough.
There is no need in getting starter fish you don't want to keep, or risking exotic/expensive fan tails. You have the Stability, the test kits, all you need is some unscented household ammonia. The nitrifying bacteria need ammonia, it doesn't matter for them whether fish excrete this or you dose it directly. It is called the fishless cycle, you don't even need bacteria, dose the ammonia, keep testing and after ±6 weeks the tank is fully cycled. Now adding bottled bacteria will speed up this process, to just a couple of days to a week (depending on tank size, brand, age, density, etc) But since you don't want to risk your fish you verify the tank is cycled by adding ammonia and testing. You tested, but didn't add ammonia, so there is no result. When the product/bacteria works, the added ammonia will be converted to nitrate fairly quickly and will show up at the test, along with 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. This means your tank is fully cycled and it is safe to fully stock the tank at once.

 

[fishorama]

The bacteria strains are very relevant!! Otherwise, like I said before, you're basically doing a modified fish in cycle...Of course, that does work too.

That is what I started to post last night but I decided to wait & TwoTank Amin came through with his usual studies & now patents. Way to go TTA! I knew I didn't have it quite right, thanks for clearing it up, for me anyway. (yes, I skimmed some of the marine data) So, as I understand it, it's not the bacteria strains are patented (natural products can't usually be patented), but the probes to detect them...?

So back to the OP, I see no advantage to using Stability. I don't think it can hurt anything, but it'll still take a while (without Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tim's 1 & Only). That's my "short form" take on all of this...Just using ammonia takes 4-8 weeks without "enhancements" IME.

So let us know how your method works. I truly am happy you're getting back into our hobby, good luck!

 

[the loach]

The bacteria strains are very relevant!! Otherwise, like I said before, you're basically doing a modified fish in cycle...Of course, that does work too.

I don't understand what you mean. There is no relevance in the strain, only the efficacy of the product. Either it works or it doesn't, and that can be easily determined by testing.

 

[Kaskade10729]

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other here; or maybe I didn't explain myself well enough.
There is no need in getting starter fish you don't want to keep, or risking exotic/expensive fan tails. You have the Stability, the test kits, all you need is some unscented household ammonia. The nitrifying bacteria need ammonia, it doesn't matter for them whether fish excrete this or you dose it directly. It is called the fishless cycle, you don't even need bacteria, dose the ammonia, keep testing and after ±6 weeks the tank is fully cycled. Now adding bottled bacteria will speed up this process, to just a couple of days to a week (depending on tank size, brand, age, density, etc) But since you don't want to risk your fish you verify the tank is cycled by adding ammonia and testing. You tested, but didn't add ammonia, so there is no result. When the product/bacteria works, the added ammonia will be converted to nitrate fairly quickly and will show up at the test, along with 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. This means your tank is fully cycled and it is safe to fully stock the tank at once.

I don't plan on getting exotic/expensive fantails at first...

 

[Kaskade10729]

The bacteria strains are very relevant!! Otherwise, like I said before, you're basically doing a modified fish in cycle...Of course, that does work too.

That is what I started to post last night but I decided to wait & TwoTank Amin came through with his usual studies & now patents. Way to go TTA! I knew I didn't have it quite right, thanks for clearing it up, for me anyway. (yes, I skimmed some of the marine data) So, as I understand it, it's not the bacteria strains are patented (natural products can't usually be patented), but the probes to detect them...?

So back to the OP, I see no advantage to using Stability. I don't think it can hurt anything, but it'll still take a while (without Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tim's 1 & Only). That's my "short form" take on all of this...Just using ammonia takes 4-8 weeks without "enhancements" IME.

So let us know how your method works. I truly am happy you're getting back into our hobby, good luck!

Thanks for your sentiments here; regardless of what folks are feeling about Stability, I've already started it, so I'm going to see it through.

Here's the situation: We're about four days in to the Stability treatment, so my plan was to add a couple of "starter fish" and continue dosing until the seventh day (it will be this Tuesday). After that, I'm not sure when to start water changes regularly (I suppose when the system is cycled?)...

Just as an FYI, the following is what is on Seachem's site about the product:

Stability® will rapidly and safely establish the aquarium biofilter in freshwater and marine systems, thereby preventing the #1 cause of fish death: "new tank syndrome". Stability® is formulated specifically for the aquarium and contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria which facilitate the breakdown of waste organics, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. The bacteria employed by Stability® are non-sulfur fixing and will not produce toxic hydrogen sulfide. Stability® is completely harmless to all aquatic organisms as well as aquatic plants, thus there is no danger of over use.

Stability® is the culmination of nearly a decade of research and development and represents the current state of the art in natural biological management.

The bacteria used in competing products are inherently unstable. The conditions necessary for their growth and development fall into a very narrow range of temperatures, pH, organic loads, etc. When any of these parameters are not strictly within the proper range, the bacterial culture quickly crashes and dies. Stability® is not limited this way.

The necessary conditions for the growth of Stability's™ bacteria strains encompass a very broad range. When other bacteria begin to die off (usually from high organic loads caused by the undetected death of an organism), Stability™ simply becomes more effective.

And here are the directions, which I have been following to a tee with regard to the dosing:

Shake well before use. Turn off UV/ozone. Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 40 L (10 US gallons) on the first day with a new aquarium. Then use 1 capful for each 80 L (20 US gallons) daily for 7 days. Fish and other aquatic species may be introduced at any time as long as dosage is maintained for 7 days.

Stability® should ideally be used in conjunction with biological filtration.

 

[the loach]

So they're saying the tank is instantly cycled once you add it. Add 5 ml ammonia and test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate later today. The results will show whether the product/bacteria works, and it is safe to add fish, then there is also no need for starter fish it's really that simple. Once ammonia and nitrite are 0 and you have nitrates showing you can start doing water changes.

 

[Kaskade10729]

So they're saying the tank is instantly cycled once you add it. Add 5 ml ammonia and test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate later today. The results will show whether the product/bacteria works, and it is safe to add fish, then there is also no need for starter fish it's really that simple. Once ammonia and nitrite are 0 and you have nitrates showing you can start doing water changes.

We already bought the fish and introduced them; a young, small common orange fantail and a similar calico fantail. They seem to be doing just fine, and I'll continue the Stability until the seventh day (which is Tuesday).

In the meantime, I'll take more readings and post them for you here to analyze as soon as I can.

 

[fishorama]

Well, my "feathers" are certainly ruffled! the loach, you say it doesn't matter what species the nitrifying bacteria is & then come back & say it'll take 6 weeks to cycle using Stability?...how is that different than , oh, I don't know, fishless cycling?

 

[fishorama]

Ooops timed out,
Well, my "feathers" are certainly ruffled! the loach, you say it doesn't matter what species the nitrifying bacteria are & then come back later & say it'll take 6 weeks to cycle using Stability?...how is that different than, oh, I don't know, fishless cycling?

OP, using less expensive fish at first is the same as fish-in cycling, so what's the point of using Stability? It doesn't matter how you cycle if the fish are inexpensive & expendable?!? How is this different? You waited a week or so to introduce fish you don't plan to keep?

You called me out (I'm not sure why) & you quote Sea Chem as an argument for using Stability. TTA & I have no profit motive, but they do...Good luck!