Water Quality Questions

[jlennon]

Hi, I recently did a water change because 3 new fish (less than 2 weeks), and an older otocinclus have died. My fish remaining are:

1 Spotted Cory Cat
1 Otocinclus Cat
1 Honey Gourami
1 Pearl Gourami
1 Sunburst Platy
3 Lemon Tetra
3 Rummy nose Tetra
1 Clown Loach
1 Green Swordtail
1 Sunburst Platy

I did a water test with my Mardley 5-in-1 test and Mardley Ammonia test and came out with the following:

Nitrate - 30ppm (estimate, color between 20 and 40 - acceptable on chart)
Nitrite - 0.25ppm (acceptable range on chart)
Akalinity - 250ppm (13.9 KH) <-- Test recommended using PH minus
Hardness - 240ppm (13.4 GH) <-- Test recommended using PH minus
PH - 8.2 (estimate, color between 8.0 and 8.4) <-- Test recommended using PH minus
Ammonia - 0.25ppm (acceptable range on chart)

Now I have never added anything to lower my pH or anything before. But I have an Amazon Sword Plant growing in the tank now, and also added my malaysian driftwood when i did the PWC.

Should I worry about the pH and hardwater, or should I just let it be since its been working all this time. I think the ammonia level was high before the water change because my tank was overpopulated.

 

[jamie1972]

What size is the tank? How long has it been up and running? How often do you do pwc/s?

On the PH issue.....the driftwood will probably lower your PH naturally. Mine did. If not, I would not mess with it. A stable PH, whether low or high, is better for the fish than a fluctuating one.

I would dump the test "strips" and use a master test kit that has water vials and drops instead. They are MUCH more accurate. I would also do PWC/s every day/to every other day until the ammonia stays BELOW .25. That level of ammonia can kill off some fish if left un-diluted.

 

[gatotsu77]

I don't want to seem like I'm attacking you here, but there are a few suggestions I'd like to make.

I would not trust the 5 in 1 test strips. They are horribly inaccurate.

NitrAtes should really be less than 10ppm, though some people consider 20ppm to be acceptable.

NitrItes should be 0ppm.

Ammonia should be 0ppm.

Your pH is indeed too high, especially for your tetras. What is the pH of the water you use for your water changes?

What is the volume of your tank? If I had to guess, I'd say it looks like a 16g bowfront from Petsmart. (I worked there for a year in pet care... those tanks were quite popular)

I can't make you do anything, but I would ask you kindly to return the clown loach to the store you bought it from. Clown loaches are schooling fish, and get far too large for the aquarium you have.

Corydoras are also schooling fish, and really do need a minimum group of 5 to be happy. (though I'm not sure if the tank you have currently would support the addition of 4 more cory's...)

Tetras are yet another schooling fish, and also do best when in a minimum group of 5-6. (of their own species, not of tetras in general)

The gouramis may present aggression issues down the road... I would keep an eye on them. What sex are they? (if one or both are males, there will more than likely be aggression issues sooner than later)

We would be better suited to help you further if you could tell us how often and what volume your water changes are, what volume your tank is, and if you could get more accurate readings of your water parameters.

EDIT: Sorry if I seem to have restated some of the things jamie1972 has said, I spent some time thinking about what I was going to post prior to actually posting it, and they beat me to it.

 

[jlennon]

Yes it is a 16 gallon bowfront from Petsmart.

I do water changes every 2 to 3 weeks.

As for the Gouramis, I am not sure what sex they are. Is there a visual way to tell them apart like there is with livebearers?

As for the clown loach, I had bought him from Petsmart because of a snail infestation, I had over 40 little snails all over the place. He took care of them in less than 2 days. I was never told that he would be too big for my tank when I purchased him.

I've had this tank for about 2 years now. However, I did recently upgrade the filter from a whisper 20 to a Hagen Aquaclear 20/100. Would this have messed up my tank cycle? The filter was only added two weeks ago, and the four fish died last week.

Well last time I brought my water to Petsmart they did say my pH was high at 8.0 but not to worry about it since I have a community tank and always use the same kind of water for partial water changes.

I use tapwater when doing partial water changes and I have town water.

Should I be worried about the pH being as high as it is or more worried about checking the ammonia more frequently?

Currently my ammonia was listed at 0.25 which said it was normal. Being as there was only three colors for safe, it came out closest to 0.25 than 0 (which was white) and was way lighter than the 0.5 color on the chart.

Does the liquid test come with a better chart with more ranges to match or is it more of a guessing game just like the strips?

I've had my clown loach for over a year now, I'm not sure I could part with him by donating him to a petstore.

 

[Ulan]

I've had this tank for about 2 years now. However, I did recently upgrade the filter from a whisper 20 to a Hagen Aquaclear 20/100. Would this have messed up my tank cycle? The filter was only added two weeks ago, and the four fish died last week.

Most of the bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite live in the filter. If you change filters, you should always keep the at least the media of the old one in the new filter or have both filters running at the same time. Otherwise, you'll get a new cycle with ammonia and nitrite spikes, though somewhat shorter, because you still have some bacteria in the gravel.

 

[liv2padl]

you have far too many fish in that tank and many that grow too large. clown loaches grow to nearly a foot and are much too large for your small tank. moreover, they should be kept in groups. take yours back to the LFS. corydoras catfish should be kept in groups of at least three. if you're not going to maintain them this way, return yours to the LFS. standard gourami grow too large for your tank. if you like gourami species, get a few dwarf species. that, a group of corydoras and a group of tetras is about all your tank can house

your ammonia and nitrite should be zero. the start of a 'new' filter without using media from the old one is a problem as Ula has stated. you should be changing 50 percent of the water on a weekly basis.

your ph is fine ... if you try to modify it you'll open a whole 'nuther can of worms.

 

[gatotsu77]

I do water changes every 2 to 3 weeks.

That is not nearly often enough, especially with a stock as heavy as you have in that tank. As has been suggested, you should be doing 50% weekly water changes.

As for the Gouramis, I am not sure what sex they are. Is there a visual way to tell them apart like there is with livebearers?

Yes, its quite easy. The dorsal fin will tell you whether it is a male or a female. If it is long and sweeps back to a point, it is a male. If it is shorter and rounded, it is a female.

As for the clown loach, I had bought him from Petsmart because of a snail infestation, I had over 40 little snails all over the place. He took care of them in less than 2 days. I was never told that he would be too big for my tank when I purchased him.

You should not buy a fish simply for the sake of a snail infestation, but I'm not going to flame about that too much. Do not rely on petsmart staff to tell you anything about the fish you are buying. Do your research, THEN buy the fish.

Currently my ammonia was listed at 0.25 which said it was normal. Being as there was only three colors for safe, it came out closest to 0.25 than 0 (which was white) and was way lighter than the 0.5 color on the chart.

Those test strips are bogus, as we've indicated before.

Does the liquid test come with a better chart with more ranges to match or is it more of a guessing game just like the strips?

Far more precise.

I've had my clown loach for over a year now, I'm not sure I could part with him by donating him to a petstore.

How large is your clown loach? I know the average size they are when petsmart sells them, and I know how rapidly they should be growing. In all likelihood, you've stunted his growth quite badly, and though you may not like to hear it, there is a high likelihood that your clown loach will die a premature and painful death. Do some research about stunting and you will understand.


I'm sorry for responding harshly, but I felt these points needed to be made.:mad2:

 

[rsw686]

I would lower the ph as well. Check the ph in your tap water. If it is high, lower the ph before adding it to the tank when doing water changes so you keep the ph consistent.

 

[liv2padl]

I would lower the ph as well. Check the ph in your tap water. If it is high, lower the ph before adding it to the tank

i would strongly disagree. trying to modify existing water chemistry often leads to instability and bigger problems. you can't just 'lower' your pH ... there are other considerations such as buffer capacity which are at issue. you are almost always better off leaving your chemistry alone.

 

[gatotsu77]

i would strongly disagree. trying to modify existing water chemistry often leads to instability and bigger problems. you can't just 'lower' your pH ... there are other considerations such as buffer capacity which are at issue. you are almost always better off leaving your chemistry alone.

I'd have to agree with him here. If you change your pH, you are messing with more parameters than you might realize. Beyond which, the fish have obviously gotten used to living in the water he's been using, otherwise they would not be alive. I originally stated that tetras are meant to live in more acidic water, and though this is true, suddenly dropping the pH of the tank could be absolutely devastating.