Confirmation/Help new 10G Tank

[Aries]

Ok, I am setting up my first marine tank (I guess it would be FOWLR) and I need some confirmation that I am doing it right. For reference,I have been taking care of FW heavilily planted tanks for 3+ years and I am not afraid of getting "into" the tank! The reason I chose 10g is space, we dont have much. We already have 7 fish tanks, all FW. Also, we dont have much room to store premixed water for water changes. I distill my own water which rids everything of nutrients (test verifies, not test copper). However, I have copper sensitive plants and they are doing great. Dont know if it is glass or copper distiller.

10G Glass Aquarium (I know bigger is better etc)
10 lbs Live Sand
10 lbs Live Rock (not bought yet, will do once hw setup)
Hydometer
2 Small Powerheads - plus will have powerfilter minus media for flow and areation
50W Heater (5wpg)
40W PC Light (4wpg)
Tight Fitting Glass lid (heard a few marine species are jumpers, just to be safe)

Ok, I have ordered my equipment and will be here Monday/Tuesday. I plan to fishless cycle using the pantyhose/shrimp method. I will have my live sand AND my live rock in here, with the lights off, correct? This help prevent algae I presume...

The live sand and live rock ARE the filter, yes - just need to verify.

I have all the standard test kits, plus I bought more CA and PO4 (as I was low, use them for plants). I do NOT have a copper test kit. How important is it to have Copper test kit? Do I need any of the odd test kits? Or are those just needed for corals?

Once cycled, I can add all my fish at once, just like with FW, yes? We are looking at maybe 1 clown fish (the small one) and a clean up crew. But also, my LFS says I can put Damsels in there...i tend to find that conflicting with info I find here. We also think of 1 or 2 Gobies. If we put a firefish in there, is there anything else we can have in there (besides clean up crew)? The fish selection are OR, not all of them combined.

I know the sand is alive, but do I need to stir it up to prevent build up every now and then? Or does the Live part do that for me? If I use sand in FW, I had to have burrowing snails or stir it up every so often to prevent bacteria build up. Also, I need to adjust the powerheads and filter so that there are no dead spots, what if the rock blocks parts of movement? How thorough do I need to clean the sand, or do I just do water changes?

If I do more than 1 water change a week after it is cylced, will it hurt anything? I know it doesnt hurt FW, but not sure about SW. For example, do 2 2G water changes weekly.

Corals - eventually we want to have corals - is 4wpg enough? Will it be wise to add them after everything is setup and running? Cant afford to have them at the start. My LFS "breeds" (???) coral which I like. I have read you need 7-8wpg, other places state 3-4 at min...cornfused. My guess is 3-4 is the soft coral...yes?

Inverts - I want these, but am afraid. Hear many bad stories about failure. Definately not for the beginner, which I am. This would be a long down the road purchase.

Thoughts?

Thanks!!!

Aries

 

[Subliminal]

Ok, lemme see if I can answer a few of your questions.

Having a 10g tank will be harder in some aspects, and easier in others...

I've currently a 10g running as a quarantine tank, and I'm doing 100% water changes every 2 days for the next week to get rid of some ich my fish were suffering from. The fish look happier and healthier than they've looked in quite some time (probably because the ich is almost gone)...but point is, they're handling the water changes fine.

For the sand and rock, that will probably be plenty. 10 lbs of rock will probably give you 2 decent sized chunks which you can stick down in the sand and make 'mountains' out of.

2 powerheads, even if they're small, should be plenty of water flow for a 10g. I've a Maxijet 1200 (300 GPH?) running in my qt tank and it keeps the fish busy swimming against the current.

4 wpg will be plenty. The whole 'wpg' thing is kind of a VERY rough estimate anyway. Penetration seems to be king here. You could have 10 WPG in your tank, but if it's tall enough, the light ain't makin in to the bottom. A 10g tank isn't very tall, so that amount of light should penetrate just fine. I'd go for one 10k bulb and one actinic, or if it's only one bulb, get one of those 50/50 dealies.

Yes, the live sand and live rock are the filters, however, they can only do so much. You will need to be very careful with feeding, as you don't want extra organics to build up in there. You might also look into one of those nano skimmers, but you can always go that route later if you find it's too hard to keep the water quality up.

A copper test kit is like $10 bucks...if you're worried about it, it's probably a worthy investment.

Damsels...I'd recommend against them. They get VERY territorial, and territory is scarce in a 10g tank. I'd probably recommend 1 clown (a pair might get too big...that of course is a personal call), totally skip any other damsel (damsels and clowns are anemone fish and kind of in the same family). If you do go with a damsel, though, get something like a yellow-tail...they're well known as the least aggressive. But i'd skip them anyway. Aggression leads to stress which leads to problems, and problems are something that you can't necessarily afford in a small tank like that.

Maybe a clown, and some kind of sandsifter (goby) to start with.

Now inverts, you mentioned, are not for beginners. That I would say is far fetched. You don't want to try and stick an anemone in there as a starter, but get yourself maybe a turbo snail, a sand sifting snail, and a shrimp of some sort, and they should do great.

As an aside, I currently have my 55g reef fallow to get rid of any ich that is in there. I have 20ish turbo snails, 10ish (someother kind of little sand sifting snails), 5 or 6 hermit crabs, and 2 cleaner shrimp. Those cleaner shrimp make the tank interesting. If they weren't in there...well, it would be a quick survey of the corals and thats it. But with the shrimp, they jump right onto my hand when i stick them in the tank...without the inverts, the tank would be boring, is what I'm trying to say, I guess.

I took that yesterday. They jump on my hand every time I put it in the tank. They also set up a cleaning station and wait for the fish to stop by...

Ok, enough of that. Back to the matter at hand...pun not intended.

My suggestion to you might be to get a 20g tall instead of the 10g. Same footprint, but twice as much water. More water means things happen a little slower, more dilution of problems, etc...

But, people run nanos all the time.

Another suggestion is to find a local club. Buying corals at the store sucks. You don't know how they've been treated before you got them and they're generally expensive. Of course, with a 10g tank, you're only going to be able to put so much in there anyway. Some zoos would be awesome, they take over rocks and end up looking like carpet.

Anyway, good luck!

 

[Reefscape]

Ok, I have ordered my equipment and will be here Monday/Tuesday. I plan to fishless cycle using the pantyhose/shrimp method. I will have my live sand AND my live rock in here, with the lights off, correct? This help prevent algae I presume...

Down to personal preference really...

The live sand and live rock ARE the filter, yes - just need to verify.

this is a correct assumption..However, please do still use an extra filter due to the small water volume.

Once cycled, I can add all my fish at once, just like with FW, yes?

No, you need to be introducing any fish very slowly, suggest 3 weeks inbetween introductions..

We are looking at maybe 1 clown fish (the small one)

Personally, i would not put a clown in a 10 gallon tank, the recomended tank size for a clown fish is 20 Gallon. Damsel should be used as they can very territorial and get aggressive, and in a tank such as 10 gallon, that does not leave any hidng room for another fish to hide safely..

Fish wise in a 10 gallon tank, your only looking at a couple, maximum. Its one of them tanks that you need to choose fish wisely..

I know the sand is alive, but do I need to stir it up to prevent build up every now and then

No, there will be no need providing there is adquate low flow over the sand bed, plus the cleanup crew will stir the top layer of sand aswell..The actual water circulation of the tank will help water go around the live rock and hopefully stop any dead spots. Water changes will be part of your weekly maintenance routine and i would suggest 10% weekly..

If I do more than 1 water change a week after it is cylced, will it hurt anything?

there is no need to do a water change while it is cycling, just do a 50% water change when the cycle has been completed.


if you want to have corals, i would let the tank settle down for a few weeks after the cycle has completed and then you can start to intoduce them into the tank.

The types of coral you specifically want will determine what your lighting should be.

Inverts - I want these, but am afraid. Hear many bad stories about failure. Definately not for the beginner, which I am. This would be a long down the road purchase.

Inbverts are absolutly fine for you to be adding to the tank in general, however, more specifics are going to be needed about which inverts you would like to house in the tank, and whether they would be compatible...

Hope this helps a little

Niko

 

[Aries]

Thanks for replies thus far.

My suggestion to you might be to get a 20g tall instead of the 10g. Same footprint, but twice as much water. More water means things happen a little slower, more dilution of problems, etc...

I cant find a 20G Extra High in my area, all I find are 20G High (which are 24" wide), dont think it will fully fit where it will be placed.

this is a correct assumption..However, please do still use an extra filter due to the small water volume.

I will add media in the filter then. Now, this filter is currently cycled on a 29G FW tank, can I just switch it to SW?

No, you need to be introducing any fish very slowly, suggest 3 weeks inbetween introductions..

Why is this? I know in FW that the Fishless cycle creates way more bioload than you will actually use, which is why you can add all fish at once (I used this method for adding 8 aggressive cichlids in 55G to prevent territories from being developed). Is it that different for marine?

Personally, i would not put a clown in a 10 gallon tank, the recomended tank size for a clown fish is 20 Gallon. Damsel should be used as they can very territorial and get aggressive, and in a tank such as 10 gallon, that does not leave any hidng room for another fish to hide safely..

Fish wise in a 10 gallon tank, your only looking at a couple, maximum. Its one of them tanks that you need to choose fish wisely..

Damsels...I'd recommend against them. They get VERY territorial, and territory is scarce in a 10g tank. I'd probably recommend 1 clown (a pair might get too big...that of course is a personal call), totally skip any other damsel (damsels and clowns are anemone fish and kind of in the same family). If you do go with a damsel, though, get something like a yellow-tail...they're well known as the least aggressive. But i'd skip them anyway. Aggression leads to stress which leads to problems, and problems are something that you can't necessarily afford in a small tank like that.

Understood, this is why I post before I am set on fish I want and have difficulties.

4 wpg will be plenty. The whole 'wpg' thing is kind of a VERY rough estimate anyway. Penetration seems to be king here. You could have 10 WPG in your tank, but if it's tall enough, the light ain't makin in to the bottom. A 10g tank isn't very tall, so that amount of light should penetrate just fine. I'd go for one 10k bulb and one actinic, or if it's only one bulb, get one of those 50/50 dealies.

I understand the whole delima with WPG debate (more of suggestion than rule etc). It has a 10K with 460nm acitinic bulb.


Thanks for the help thus far!!

Aries

 

[Subliminal]

You might also want to do some reading/questioning here:

http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/?article=1

 

[Reefscape]

Quote:
Originally Posted by atnixon
this is a correct assumption..However, please do still use an extra filter due to the small water volume.

I will add media in the filter then. Now, this filter is currently cycled on a 29G FW tank, can I just switch it to SW?

That is correct...

Quote:
Originally Posted by atnixon
No, you need to be introducing any fish very slowly, suggest 3 weeks inbetween introductions..

Why is this? I know in FW that the Fishless cycle creates way more bioload than you will actually use, which is why you can add all fish at once (I used this method for adding 8 aggressive cichlids in 55G to prevent territories from being developed). Is it that different for marine?

It is a a different process in marine due to the type of bacteria as they are different than the bacteria that is generated when you cycle a fw setup. It is so very common in the marine for a tank to simply crash ( the bioload is far greater than the bacteria can handle ) because people have gone out and purchase 5 or so fish and put them in tank...The bioload needs to raised gradually to allow the bacteria to grow and compensate...

I shall leave Damon to give his opinions to the questions/comments directed to himself...

Hope this helps a little, and of course, any more questions, just shout up...

Niko

 

[SigPiPup]

nano-reef.com is an excellent resource and the only one I used when I set up my nano 6 years ago.

 

[BIGgourami]

That is correct...

huh?
there are different bacteria involved he can just add them the bacteria will just die.
unless im just understanding his question wrong, do you mean can i add the filter and you will have bacteria in the tank, ready to de-nitrify?
cause those bacteria can live in SW and will die.
and i could see keeping 1 flase perc in a ten gallon tank.
i have a fals eperc, blue damsel and velvet damsel in a 29 and they get along pretty good, the blue gets hasseled from time to time by the velvet but nothing to really worry about.

 

[Reefscape]

huh?
there are different bacteria involved he can just add them the bacteria will just die.
unless im just understanding his question wrong, do you mean can i add the filter and you will have bacteria in the tank, ready to de-nitrify?
cause those bacteria can live in SW and will die.
and i could see keeping 1 flase perc in a ten gallon tank.
i have a fals eperc, blue damsel and velvet damsel in a 29 and they get along pretty good, the blue gets hasseled from time to time by the velvet but nothing to really worry about.

Mixing filters from a freshwater system onto a marine is not something that should be practiced at all....think about the potential for a paracite or anything being transfered into your tank....that is information that is well documented on the internet, a simple search is all that is required if you want to read more information on that.

Do you not think that keeping a fish in a small tank is not cruel? Why do you think that fish have recomended tank sizes? this is so that the fish do not have their growth stunted.

I am not denying that people keep damsels in community tanks and do not have any issues, however, your damsel will not be the same as the next damsel and when people are selcting fish, they need to be aware of the bigger picture. All fish are different, act and react in different ways. Just because it works for one person, does not neccesaily mean that it will work for the next person who trys to do a similar setup. We cannot predict exactly how fish react when we put them into our aquariums, so both sides of the coin do need to be stated.

Niko

 

[BIGgourami]

Mixing filters from a freshwater system onto a marine is not something that should be practiced at all....think about the potential for a paracite or anything being transfered into your tank....that is information that is well documented on the internet, a simple search is all that is required if you want to read more information on that.

but you said that he should do that? right?

Do you not think that keeping a fish in a small tank is not cruel? Why do you think that fish have recomended tank sizes?

i agree that it is cruel, however i don't think that a 10gal is too smal for one clown. if it host in a nem it wont go far from it anyway,nomatter what tank size.

this is so that the fish do not have their growth stunted.

fish get stunted from bad water conditions

I am not denying that people keep damsels in community tanks and do not have any issues, however, your damsel will not be the same as the next damsel and when people are selcting fish, they need to be aware of the bigger picture. All fish are different, act and react in different ways. Just because it works for one person, does not neccesaily mean that it will work for the next person who trys to do a similar setup. We cannot predict exactly how fish react when we put them into our aquariums, so both sides of the coin do need to be stated.

i was stating the other side of the coin. if every fish is different, (as they all are) why can people say that damsels are territorial and will fight, even with clowns?