New member, new to marine tank, and hello

[gomezvi]

Hello All!
as the title of my thread states, I'm a newbie to the hobby and to this forum. I've kept freshwater fish all my life, I breed old world chameleons, bearded dragons, and leopard geckos, and I have my own bonsai nursery. As you can tell, I enjoy hobbies that require RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH.
I have a 55 gallon tank that I want to turn into a reef tank. I have about 80 lbs of crushed coral, and about 200 lbs of lace rock and assorted coral pieces, non of it live. I soaked the rock and coral in fresh water for about a month, then I started to slap my tank together. I have not purchased any lights outside of the normal fresh water lights, nor any salt water specific equipment.
Coming from a freshwater background, I used an under-gravel filter and laid down about a 4 inch layer of crushed coral, placing my lace rock and dead coral in the tank.
It's been running for about 2 weeks, and I figured it was high time I added some fish to start the cycling process, so away to the LFS I went. Fish store was highly reccommended to me, but I did not speak to the owner. Instead I spoke to a smart-aleck who obviously had ZERO interest in helping me. I had brought in a water sample to test my water, just to make sure it was Okay to put some fish in. First, the guy gives me this line that if I don't have anything in the tank, then there's really nothing to test (yeah right). Second, the guy gives me this line about lace rock being a 'DUMB' idea for a reef tank. Something about phosphates in the lace rock, it would take YEARS before the phosphates would be acceptable for use, and I would continue to have issues with algae. I dug my heals in and insisted that he test the water for me, which he grudgingly did. Guess what the tests showed? You already know, but I'll say it anyways. HIGH NITRATES. Twice the level of what would be considered safe.
Have I mentioned I've been doing a lot of research? Research is no substitute for practice. Last two weeks have been a huge eye opener. Have the following questions:
1. Crushed coral/UGF - Crushed coral is a bad thing? FAQ here seems to indicate that UGF of any kind is bad. I was reading a post from another newbie, I forgot who answered, but suggested to use play sand from HOME DEPOT mixed with live sand? Would this sand be use with an UGF?
2. Lace rock - The rock I'm using has no metalic veins, can I get some suggestions on its use. Any truth to lace rock leaching phosphates? Why exactly would this be a big issue anyway? If I plan to use a TON of reef janitors to control hair algae and slimes, and start with the 'easier' coral to begin with, would I still want to stay away from lace rock?
3. Live rock - Yes, I plan to use some live rock to help seed my tank.

I've taken all the rocks out of my tanks and I'm not against tossing all the crushed coral and starting from scratch. But I want to know that this is what I should be doing. BTW- Could I mix the crushed coral with the play sand?
Thanks much to all for looking, and please, be gentle with me. LOL

 

[Linariel]

I wouldn't use the crushed coral or the lace rock. I also would not cycle with fish...if you throw the live rock in there it will cycle the tank for you. The fish(and the environment) will thank you.

I don't know why you would have nitrates in that tank, maybe from decaying stuff stuck in the CC?

I wouldn't use the UGF for the same reason as the CC-it just collects junk and will cause a serious nitrate problem at some point in the future. It also doesn't have great buffering capacity.

I prefer aragonite sand(or at least fine grade if you don't like sand). You could use some live sand, or all live sand. It's just so pricey, and regular aragonite will become live sand eventually anyway.

I think I read somewhere that play sand is high in silicates-which will cause a nice silicate algae bloom in a marine aquarium.

I'm by no means an expert, but I hope that helps a little.

 

[gomezvi]

I wouldn't use the crushed coral or the lace rock.
Could you elaborate as to why not use the CC or lace rock? I hear lots of things, but I want to know the why.
I also would not cycle with fish...if you throw the live rock in there it will cycle the tank for you.
How much live rock should I use for cycling? If I use some live sand, would that work as well?
I wouldn't use the UGF for the same reason as the CC-it just collects junk and will cause a serious nitrate problem at some point in the future.
See, that confuses me. Are you saying I should use a sand layer, but with no UGF? Maybe use a mixture of aragonite sand and some live sand?
I mentioned the play sand because someone had suggested that to another new tank earlier. The suggestion was to mix some play sand with 10-20% live sand, I believe. Silicate algae blooms? Would this be along the same reasons as to why I should stay away from lace rock?
Thanks for quick reply, any thoughts, suggestions, or discussion is always apreciated.

 

[Linariel]

I wouldn't use the lace rock simply because I don't know if it's saltwater safe...and why take the chance?

Use 1-1.5lbs of live rock per gallon of water for cycling. The stuff on the rock that dies off produces an ammonia source for the bacteria populations to feed on. The rock also has lots of beneficial bacteria already, which means a shorter cycle.

No crushed coral because it traps waste, same as the undergravel filter. That's why I said I wouldn't use either. That will just lead to a nitrate buildup in the future.

 

[gomezvi]

No crushed coral because it traps waste, same as the undergravel filter. That's why I said I wouldn't use either. That will just lead to a nitrate buildup in the future.

Okay, so you're saying to an argonite/live sand layer, but without an UGF. What a strange concept! Coming from a freshwater background, this is just foreign to me and seems counter-intuitive. I'd love to hear more opinions about this subject. I'd also love to hear more from that guy who suggested using a mix of 80% playsand 20% live sand for his sand. Thanks for your input on this.

I apreciate your comment about the lace rock, and I COMPLETELY agree- don't know if it's marine safe. The comments that the helpful guy made, about it leaking phosphates and that being a 'DUMB' choice just really rubbed me the wrong way. How can anyone make a blanket statement without knowing more about the rock that I was inquiring about. That, and the fact that he made it obviously clear that I was being a huge bother to him, asking if he could test my water left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm willing to bet the average marine hobbyist would've walked away from that shop and never returned. Anyways, I've asked the good people at GARF about using lace rock and they don't seem to think it's a bad idea as long as 1. there are no metallic veins and 2. it's been 'CURED'. In light of the fact that I am starting out from scratch, I'm going to omit lace rock from my marine tank, and put all my lace rock in the 'further research required' bucket. That will leave me with about 30 lbs of dead coral and room to add live rock.

Any further thoughts and suggestions greatly apreciated!

 

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by Linariel
No crushed coral because it traps waste, same as the undergravel filter. That's why I said I wouldn't use either. That will just lead to a nitrate buildup in the future.

I use 40 pounds of it with no problems, from your comment iam going to assume that gravel vac's and water changes are not an option for you...

 

[gomezvi]

I use 40 pounds of it with no problems, from your comment iam going to assume that gravel vac's and water changes are not an option for you...

Do you mean you're using 40 lbs of lace rock or dead coral?
Gravel vacs and water changes? What, do you mean like vacuuming the gravel like you might do in a freshwater tank, or are you suggesting that I might be able to keep the crushed coral if I utilize a gravel vac and perform regular water changes?
Would love to hear what you have going. :grinyes:

 

[Weezer]

Her comment suggested that crushed coral collects more waste and raises rates more than any other type of substrate, i use about 1.5 inches of cc with no problems and my rates as of 15 minutes ago were 5..

 

[gomezvi]

i use about 1.5 inches of cc with no problems and my rates as of 15 minutes ago were 5..

Interesting and worth noting. I apreciate your input. Did I mention I plan to move towards a reef tank? Maybe I'll keep the CC for now, maybe I'll switch to sand, still need MORE research. I'm wondering if sand would be a better substrate for use in a reef tank. Wondering further if I should even use an UGF...
Choices, decisions, research. Everything leads to something else.
Maybe I'll just stick to raising Discus. ROFL

 

[Catpicklesdog]

My current tank had coral sand (I think it's the same as crushed coral but it is smaller). In my new tank I'm using aragnite sand and I've got to say it looks alot nicer. Having read alot of threads on here about the disadvantages of crushed coral I decided to go for sand this time. Like a lot of things in this hobby though it is all down to personal preference.

This is what helped me make my choice http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84113