What kind of cichlids do you have already?
What's the ph?
What do you prefer (aggressive or semi or non aggressive cichlids)?
What's the ph?
What do you prefer (aggressive or semi or non aggressive cichlids)?
55 or 75?????
- Thread starter mtdewlover
- Start date
Originally posted by slipknottin
How so? Mbuna arent aggressive and territorial?
If he wants to keep costs low, then he would go with the 55 regardless of which she chooses. There are plenty of smaller sized american cichlids...
I said it applies MORE to central/south americans then mbuna. You wouldn't have half the problems in putting mbuna in a 55 as you would salvinis, texas, and any aggressive new world for that matter. Im not saying mbuna aren't aggressive, but to me their aggression is very docile compared to my new worlds and new worlds I've had experience with. Besides the average size of mbuna and central americans isn't even comparable. Most mbuna grow to 6" or less. Most central americans grow to 10" or more. And aggression, well that's also not comparable on average. Just take a look around stans page here, I found the african cichlid aggression comment rather humorous myself. Scroll down a few pictures and find the trimac showing you the difference in new world and old world http://community-2.webtv.net/MorganaLaFey/StansAquariumPage/page4.html
Now im not saying mbuna don't deserve a 75 gallon tank, what im saying was simply a central american cichlid would need it much more than mbuna would if we are on budget talk here.
EDIT: And for all those african excuses about size not having anything to do with aggression or people getting size confused with aggression, thats like saying a playground bulley is more aggressive than mike tyson. May very well be, but does it matter??? no, not quite
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I have three red zebras and two yellow tailed violet cichlids. The biggest one being four inches if not a little more. I was wondering what other cichlids I could add. Or if I could add any bottom feeders, algae eaters, snails or any other cool fishies. And how many fishies I could add. 
It's not debatable that african cichlids are aggressive. Will a 6" Ps. lombardoi take off your finger if you stick it into the tank? Probably not. Is it likely to quickly kill any tankmates it takes a disliking to? Absolutely. That's the type of aggression - the ability to do damage to tankmates - that's really relevant. I'm not particularly interested in a contest to prove whether Old World or New World cichlids are badder -- I've get better things to do. The statement that tank size -- in particular the difference between a 55 and a 75 -- is important for american cichlids but not for africans is erroneous. Obviously, larger fish need larger tanks. But a 55 is simply less suitable for the vast majority of mbuna than is a 75, unless you don't mind netting dead fish with some frequency.
Back the issue at hand: mtdewlover, I'd suggest you consider adding one or two more each of the fish you have, along with a trio or quartet of small synodontis catfish, like Syn. petricola or Syn. multipunctatus. The petricola in particular are active and not terribly reclusive. That would give you 10-11 cichlids and few catfish, which would be about max for 55, I'd think.
HTH,
Jim
Back the issue at hand: mtdewlover, I'd suggest you consider adding one or two more each of the fish you have, along with a trio or quartet of small synodontis catfish, like Syn. petricola or Syn. multipunctatus. The petricola in particular are active and not terribly reclusive. That would give you 10-11 cichlids and few catfish, which would be about max for 55, I'd think.
HTH,
Jim
Well my argument was that imo new worlds were definatly in need of a tank larger than a 55 gallon, you can grow out central americans in a 55 but very very few can be housed life long in a 55g and I mean VERY few. Thorichthys and crytoheros are about the only two genus from CA that I can think of that can be kept in a smaller tank. As you can see with the end of this thread, mbuna on the other hand can be housed life long in a 55g. That was my point from the beggining. I wasn't trying to step on toes, and im sorry if I did. I just think you have ALOT more options stocking a 55 gallon with old worlds than you do new worlds. Guess with that this thing is closed. congrats on your new tank mtdewlover.
EDIT: and just to clear things up about the africans needing less than central american's. I never said that, what I said was it applies MORE towards new worlds, not ONLY towards them. You said it yourself, larger fish need larger tanks, and a vast VAST majority of new worlds are larger than 8-9" whereas very few if any mbuna get to that size. I just took it when you said it was superior for africans that it was only for africans, and that those rules didn't apply for new worlds. Thats why I said it applies for new worlds moreso. I in now way meant to make it seem as if I thought africans didn't need the larger space. Of course the larger tank suits both sides well, but when at the end of the day. A few 6" mbuna would be more comfortable in that 55 than a 12" midas.
EDIT: and just to clear things up about the africans needing less than central american's. I never said that, what I said was it applies MORE towards new worlds, not ONLY towards them. You said it yourself, larger fish need larger tanks, and a vast VAST majority of new worlds are larger than 8-9" whereas very few if any mbuna get to that size. I just took it when you said it was superior for africans that it was only for africans, and that those rules didn't apply for new worlds. Thats why I said it applies for new worlds moreso. I in now way meant to make it seem as if I thought africans didn't need the larger space. Of course the larger tank suits both sides well, but when at the end of the day. A few 6" mbuna would be more comfortable in that 55 than a 12" midas.
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there are plenty of new world cichlids that would be happy to live in a 55. just because you have some of the larger new world cichlids and compair them to the smaller african doesn't mean that you can't make the oposite comparison as well
If you compared the frontosa with apistos, rams and the eartheaters you could make the same point the other way
If you compared the frontosa with apistos, rams and the eartheaters you could make the same point the other way
Sorry to bring this back up but I've been gone for a couple weeks, but anyway, I thought we were talking mbuna here, because the front is about the only lake tang that can't fit in a 55g and for the most part lake tangs aren't very aggressive if at all. Even if we are talking ALL old worlds, read what I said "Most mbuna grow to 6" or less. Most central americans grow to 10" or more." ok so the front moves that average up to maybe 8 or less for old worlds. We are talking on average here. The front is the ONLY old world cichlid exceeding 10-12" in length that I know of. So no you can't go the other way
because my original point behind it applying more towards new worlds was size and aggression vs tank size. And the new worlds clearly and blatantly outweigh the old worlds in that category.EDIT: and again IMO, the whole thing that started this, the statement I made behind this post...."I disagree about a 55 being good for african cichlids, especially for mbuna, which tend to be terribly common. A 75 is much superior for africans because of the larger footprint. Since these fish are so territorial, the extra space can make a huge difference in how they behave and get along with one another." was simply to say that I think IMO that aggressive new worlds needed a tank larger than 55 gallons before most anything else. Thats not saying I dont' think africans deserve a larger tank. I was saying if I had to choose something to put in a 55g on a budget, it would be old worlds before it'd be aggressive new worlds. Bigger is better for anything of course, I do admit that I read that post wrong at first and thought he was stating the africans needed it before anything else by the "75 being superior for africans" remark, and that is where my statements came from.
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