80 Gallon Planted Freshwater Aquarium - Fishless Cycling - My First Attempt

[malaybiswas]

I am relatively new to aquarium setup (about 8 months) and at this moment this is my favorite hobby. After setting up two 40 gallon freshwater aquariums (1 planted) and after going through the frustrating and devastating lessons of cycling using starter fishes (thank god, my 3 mountain minnows and 1 of 2 zebra danios made it through with flying colors), I read about fishless cycling and decided to setup a new 80 gallon planted tank and move all my fishes in there. My family is going for a 8 week vacation to India starting mid June, so that's when I plan starting my pet project which works out perfectly fine since I have about 8 weeks of lead time starting now, to research, plan, shop around and buy all my products without pinching my pocket at one shot in this economic situation (my budget is around $2100).

Some interesting (may be!!) facts. I have a combination of fishes which are not necessarily compatible as per multiple posts and information on the web. However they worked out beautifully for me (I have mixed and matched their combination between my 2 tanks and never saw an issue). What do I have?
1 male betta, 5 discus (5-6"), 2 platies and 9 fries (betta ate up one in front of my eyes, but other's did well behind the heater and have survived over 2 months and big enough...none of the discus saw them as food), 4 albino cory, 2 spotted cory, 1 clown pleco, 2 cardinal tetra, 1 guppy, 3 minnows and 1 danio. I plan to add one more discus and about 8 more cardinals in the mix after I have setup my 80 gallon.

This attempt is purely based on my knowledge from experience, feedback from my favorite fish store and numerous blogs on the web. This can be a useful to someone out there who is interested, but I have to try it and see the success so right now I don't make any claims whether this is a recipe for success or not. If you want, please try at your own risk. I have a detailed plan (see below) and as I start and continue, I will continue to update it and record the log on this site. I welcome any suggestion/feedback and if somebody finds it useful and attempts it (own your own risk ), I would be very interested to know the outcomes or lessons learned.

First - what I plan to buy.
1. Main tank - 80 gallon Truvu bowfront
2. Tank stand
3. Hydor Ario Turbo Aquarium Aerator
4. CO2 Green NRG Advanced System
5. 74ml disposable CO2 cartridges
6. Aquasoil Amazonia - Normal (9l) - 2 bags
7. Aquasoil Amazonia - Powder(9l) - 3 bags
8. Power sand - 1 bag (6l) for $55
9. Sump and 10 gallon hospital tank
10. Fritz Turbo Start #700 4oz
11. Marineland Visitherm heater (one of my existing heaters go for sale and the other go into the container which will be used for water changes for maintaining water temperature)
12. Coralife Lunar Aqualight Compact Fluorescent Fixture, 4X65 Watt, 48 inch
13. 2 Lee's cone fish feeder
14. 10% household ammonia (NH4OH)
15. Dropper and medical gloves (for feeding ammonia in tank)
16. driftwood (I have one which is the home for my pleco). The new one for growing java moss
17. 3 timers for light
18. Riccia stone, riccia line, moss string
19. test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, hardness and chlorine
20. Plants - riccia fluitans, hairgrass, java moss, onion plant, wisteria, didiplis diandra, cabomba and rotala magenta

Whew....that's a lot but that's it. Now the setup process. I have my setup process and cycle log template done in an excel. If anybody is interested, please contact me and I would be happy to share a copy. For seeding bacteria I plan to use a combination of Fritz Turbo Start, a driftwood and some gravels from my existing tanks


Week 1 Fill tank and start cycling
Day 1 - 1. Assemble Stand
2. Place hospital tank
3. Place main aquarium
4. Place sump
5. Connect Sump
6. Fix heater (set to 82 degrees F) and thermometer
7. Fix CO2 Diffuser (NOT THE ENTIRE CO2 SYSTEM)
8. Fix air diffuser
9. Layer substrate (gravels and wood block later)
10. Fix lighting
11. Fix timer for air bubble (2 hour run cycle spaced 4 hours apart)
12. Fix timer for day light (10 am to 6 pm)
13. Fix timer for attnic light (9:30 am to 6:30 pm)
14. Organize wires and plumbing
15. Fill up tank and sump with water
16. Start all equipment and timer
17. Add ammonia and measure for 5 ppm (note how many drops required)
18. Add starter bacteria
19. Place wood block and gravels from old aquarium
20. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
21. soak driftwood to remove tanin
Day 2 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 3 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 4 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 5 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 6 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 7 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine

Week 2 Continue Cycling
Day 8 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 9 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 10 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 11 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 12 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 13 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 14 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine

Week 3 Plant and continue cycling
Day 15 - 1. Add ammonia (reduce dosage to half if needed)
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 16 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
3. Buy plants (if NH3 & NO2 started reducing and NO2 has started building up. If not, move out this and next day's planting steps as required)
Day 17 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
3.Clean aquarium and change water if needed (20%)
4. Fix CO2 system with Diffuser
5. Setup background and mid ground plants including old plants from aquarium
6. Attach moss to diftwood and place driftwood
7. Attach riccia to riccia stone and place them on foreground (1/2 tank foreground)
8. Plant hairgrass on remaining half foreground
Day 18 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 19 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 20 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 21 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine

Week 4 - Continue Cycling
Day 22 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 23 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
3. Clean aquarium and change water if needed (20%)
Day 24 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 25 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 26 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 27 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 28 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine

Week 5 - Start adding fish and continue cycling
Day 29 - 1. Add ammonia
2. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
3. Add timer for moonlight
Day 30 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 31 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. If no NH3 & NO2 do 20-50% water change depending upon NO3 concentration
3. Add 3 mountain minnow and 1 zebra danio
Day 32 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 33 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Add Betta and Pleco (NO FEEDING) = 4 inch of fish
Day 34 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 35 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Add Platties and Guppy (NO FEEDING) = 6 inch of fish

Week 6 - Add rest of fish
Day 36 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 37 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Add 2 Discus and 6 Cory Cats (NO FEEDING) = 14 inch of fish
Day 38 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Clean tank and change water (20%)
Day 39 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Buy 2 discus
3. Add 2 new discus and 2 cardinal tetras (NO FEEDING) = 10 inch of fish
Day 40 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 41 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Add last 3 Discus (NO FEEDING) = 12 inch of fish
Day 42 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine

Week 7 - Add new fish and finish off
Day 43 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 44 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 45 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Clean tank and change water (20%)
Day 46 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
2. Add 8 cardinal tetras (NO FEEDING) = 8 inch of fish
Day 47 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 48 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine
Day 49 - 1. Measure NH3, NO2, NO3, Hardness, Chlorine

Wish me luck !!!

 

[grannylvsfish]

OMG this was way to much for my head.. I am swimming.... good luck, I can not read it :lol:

 

[Marinemom]

Too much for me too. Anyways, good luck with it.

Marinemom

 

[sillypony]

I could be wrong, but if you fully cycle the 80 (using like 4-5ppm ammonia at any time) until it goes to 0 over night, can't you just add all the fish at once?

That is the point of fishless cycling, isnt it? Otherwise, wouldn't you build up all this bacteria, only to let it die off when you add only a handful of fish. Then you'd have a mini cycle every time you add more... ??

Sorry if i'm derailing the thread, just curious.

 

[SchizotypalVamp]

You could do an instant cycle by transferring gravel/filtration media over, heh.

Danios, guppies, cardinals, cories, and minnows are all schooling fish. In the long term, they'll all probably be happier if you create schools of 4 or more for each (pref 5).

The amount of lighting sounds good, I think. Coralife and Marineland tend to be trustworthy, but I have a marineland heater and a stealth heater. I prefer the stealth heater. Actually, are you going to buy a thermometer?

Most people don't test for chlorine, though chlorine spikes have devastated tanks before.

I get the feeling you're not in the US, because I have never heard of Truvo, Hydro, Aquasoil Amazonia, power sand, or fritz. Or maybe it's just me?

Starter bacteria kits don't work besides biospira, in my experience, and if they did, the cycle would be instantly completed. There would be no need to wait to add fish.

I notice you state inches of fish. Why?

You sound as if you have allocated a lot of time and money, and done a lot of research. Congratulations and I really hope it goes well.

 

[plantbrain]

Do not do Fishless cycling.

It's hardly the point, if you stock properly, if you do not over feed, if you add zeolite, if you add plants, if you do frequent water changes until,the system stabilizes(typical, about 3-5 week,s the same time it takes to cycle).

It do not know how many folks on this and most forums get a bad case of green water from adding NH3 ammonia.

There are 4-6 ways to do things that do not involve test kits and waiting to add fish for several weeks. Why on earth FC gained popularity is a bit beyond me. Few aquariums have such high loading rates and those that do, never last long and the fish suffer.

So the bacterial colonies all taper off to fit the supply of the normal stock level. Adding plants helps the bacteria cycle much better, they take up NH4 directly(Biological removal, there is no waiting for them to get around to it). Same with zeolite(chemical removal), same with water changes which exports NH4(mechanical removal).

You can also add a mature filter to a new tank for the same effect.
You can also prep any filter in a bucket and add NH3 there instead of dumping NH3 into your entire tank.

Why treat the entire tank?
A 5 gallon bucket does fine.

If you have excess to an older mature filter, or gravel, you can take the flith and dirt out of the filter/gravel and add that to the sediment and filter intake of the new tank.

I do not think I've ever had any issues in the last 30 years and have never seen, nor found a reason to FC.

BTW, with ADA aqua soil, I'd just use the ADA aqua soil medium, the powder is rather messing and too fine IME. Power sand did nothing as far as differences in growth rates, it was mostly just NO3(for the 1st-2 months then that's it.........so add KNO3, it's a lot cheaper).

BTW, ADA AS has NH4 already in it and you should plan on doign water changes 2-3x a week for the first 2-3 weeks anyway, and adding zeolite, after the chemical is exhausted, the porous media becomes excellent biomedia(about 1 month).

So water changes, zeolite, good management will get farther.
Also, less rather than more light is wise and most of the focus should be on good CO2.

This will help get you off to the right path.
Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[malaybiswas]

I could be wrong, but if you fully cycle the 80 (using like 4-5ppm ammonia at any time) until it goes to 0 over night, can't you just add all the fish at once?

That is the point of fishless cycling, isnt it? Otherwise, wouldn't you build up all this bacteria, only to let it die off when you add only a handful of fish. Then you'd have a mini cycle every time you add more... ??

Sorry if i'm derailing the thread, just curious.

You might be right, but I am new to this so I am not sure if adding all or some is a good idea. I have read both kind of ideas. I guess I have to do a little bit more fact finding to decide. For now I am thinking adding some 30+ fishes over one week period would probably be right to adjust between an unwanted ammonia spike and letting the bacteria die.

Regards,
Malay

 

[malaybiswas]

You could do an instant cycle by transferring gravel/filtration media over, heh.

Danios, guppies, cardinals, cories, and minnows are all schooling fish. In the long term, they'll all probably be happier if you create schools of 4 or more for each (pref 5).

The amount of lighting sounds good, I think. Coralife and Marineland tend to be trustworthy, but I have a marineland heater and a stealth heater. I prefer the stealth heater. Actually, are you going to buy a thermometer?

Most people don't test for chlorine, though chlorine spikes have devastated tanks before.

I get the feeling you're not in the US, because I have never heard of Truvo, Hydro, Aquasoil Amazonia, power sand, or fritz. Or maybe it's just me?

Starter bacteria kits don't work besides biospira, in my experience, and if they did, the cycle would be instantly completed. There would be no need to wait to add fish.

I notice you state inches of fish. Why?

You sound as if you have allocated a lot of time and money, and done a lot of research. Congratulations and I really hope it goes well.

Actually I am very much in US (golden state). Aquasoil is not very common, so I am not surprised you never heard of it. I found it accidentally, but got very good reviews and was very pleased with the effects in my 40 gallons.

However Truvu is something I would expect most aquarists would know about. They make some of the best acrylic aquariums and I have found those in almost all stores I have been. If interested check at www.truvuaquariums.com. Same with Hydro (they have a ton of products) and Fritz. Just do a simple google on the words and you would find them, all available in the US.

Thanks for your feedback.

Regards,
Malay

 

[malaybiswas]

Do not do Fishless cycling.

It's hardly the point, if you stock properly, if you do not over feed, if you add zeolite, if you add plants, if you do frequent water changes until,the system stabilizes(typical, about 3-5 week,s the same time it takes to cycle).

It do not know how many folks on this and most forums get a bad case of green water from adding NH3 ammonia.

There are 4-6 ways to do things that do not involve test kits and waiting to add fish for several weeks. Why on earth FC gained popularity is a bit beyond me. Few aquariums have such high loading rates and those that do, never last long and the fish suffer.

So the bacterial colonies all taper off to fit the supply of the normal stock level. Adding plants helps the bacteria cycle much better, they take up NH4 directly(Biological removal, there is no waiting for them to get around to it). Same with zeolite(chemical removal), same with water changes which exports NH4(mechanical removal).

You can also add a mature filter to a new tank for the same effect.
You can also prep any filter in a bucket and add NH3 there instead of dumping NH3 into your entire tank.

Why treat the entire tank?
A 5 gallon bucket does fine.

If you have excess to an older mature filter, or gravel, you can take the flith and dirt out of the filter/gravel and add that to the sediment and filter intake of the new tank.

I do not think I've ever had any issues in the last 30 years and have never seen, nor found a reason to FC.

BTW, with ADA aqua soil, I'd just use the ADA aqua soil medium, the powder is rather messing and too fine IME. Power sand did nothing as far as differences in growth rates, it was mostly just NO3(for the 1st-2 months then that's it.........so add KNO3, it's a lot cheaper).

BTW, ADA AS has NH4 already in it and you should plan on doign water changes 2-3x a week for the first 2-3 weeks anyway, and adding zeolite, after the chemical is exhausted, the porous media becomes excellent biomedia(about 1 month).

So water changes, zeolite, good management will get farther.
Also, less rather than more light is wise and most of the focus should be on good CO2.

This will help get you off to the right path.
Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks for the feedback. I like the idea of culturing the bacteria in a bucket instead of in the tank. Maybe something I should try.

However, I am not sure why you think fishless cycling is a bad idea. The regular cycling process with starter fishes works, and I have done it. However I feel, even with right amount of load and food and periodic cleaning, during the ammonia peak, the fish gets stressed which can be avoided by fishless cycling (even if it takes the same duration).

Thanks,
Malay

 

[malaybiswas]

Finally some pictures after 2 months of setup and stabilization. Hope you like them. If you do, find more details and pictures at http://planteddiscusaquarium.blogspot.com/.

And yes I did do fishless. You can find the cycling log in the URL posted. I consider it a successful effort not only because I did not have to impact any starter fishes but also b'cos it was QUICK. Took me little over 2 weeks to cycle a 80 gallon tank. I would say worth a try.