A Nearly Closed Clownfish Ecosystem

[Fishfriend1]

Its not, but (in a lecture type voice) 'you musn't rush this, that can result in disaster'. lol, their just trying to help.

So, can we get an update on a full size scale? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, did the molly live, did the crab live, pics just for the heck of it... and anything else you want to add.

 

[MasterOfReason]

Yes the molly lives and the crab lives.... I am currently only monitoring a few things as I don't have real demanding species yet. I would love to have pictures unfortunately my girlfriend left my digital camera at her mothers. Hopefully I will get it back soon (it seems to much effort for them to mail it)

The Water looks like this
PH 8.4
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ammonia 0
Salinity is a little low at 1.021 (After 1 Gallon Top Off)
I also fed for the second time. 3ML of fairly concentrated brine shrimp.


Today, I added some species...
A Cerith Snail, an Astrea Snail and a Nerite Snail (Tank Bred from Caribbean Varieties)
If I had stopped with the snails I would have felt quite comfortable as they were all very small. I also added a peppermint shrimp. That may have been a little hasty but my peppermint shrimp has turned back to a nice red color and seems very happy actively feeding with the light on or off. Also my tank water was identical in every regard but salinity to his source tank.

 

[MasterOfReason]

Being that bio-diversity is one of my major goals I have been trying to identify as many species as possible. Last night I noticed a Copepod (two of them actually). Obviously this is a macro organism as I saw it with my naked eye. It is about 1 mm long white it seemed to have two antenae at one end of its body which were about the same length as its body and 5 or 6 legs along the length of it that were like tiny hairs. I think it maybe some kind of tiny (possibly baby bristleworm) a little research and I found out there are 706 copepod species in the Caribbean. But that site was basically a data base bibliography giving page numbers and book titles where those species are discussed with no descriptions or pictures. Obviously I may never exactly identify this little creature but can anyone help me maybe limit it to a family. Also I am sure there are some of these that are pests are there any kinds I should look out for?

I know this will sound strange but I had as much fun watching this tiny creature crawl across my glass as I do watching my hermit crab or any of the other larger animals.

 

[Fishfriend1]

Yes the molly lives and the crab lives.... I am currently only monitoring a few things as I don't have real demanding species yet. I would love to have pictures unfortunately my girlfriend left my digital camera at her mothers. Hopefully I will get it back soon (it seems to much effort for them to mail it)

The Water looks like this
PH 8.4
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ammonia 0
Salinity is a little low at 1.021 (After 1 Gallon Top Off)
I also fed for the second time. 3ML of fairly concentrated brine shrimp.


Today, I added some species...
A Cerith Snail, an Astrea Snail and a Nerite Snail (Tank Bred from Caribbean Varieties)
If I had stopped with the snails I would have felt quite comfortable as they were all very small. I also added a peppermint shrimp. That may have been a little hasty but my peppermint shrimp has turned back to a nice red color and seems very happy actively feeding with the light on or off. Also my tank water was identical in every regard but salinity to his source tank.

Just be warned, the shrimp will not tolerate copper or copper based meds.

Being that bio-diversity is one of my major goals I have been trying to identify as many species as possible. Last night I noticed a Copepod (two of them actually). Obviously this is a macro organism as I saw it with my naked eye. It is about 1 mm long white it seemed to have two antenae at one end of its body which were about the same length as its body and 5 or 6 legs along the length of it that were like tiny hairs. I think it maybe some kind of tiny (possibly baby bristleworm) a little research and I found out there are 706 copepod species in the Caribbean. But that site was basically a data base bibliography giving page numbers and book titles where those species are discussed with no descriptions or pictures. Obviously I may never exactly identify this little creature but can anyone help me maybe limit it to a family. Also I am sure there are some of these that are pests are there any kinds I should look out for?

I know this will sound strange but I had as much fun watching this tiny creature crawl across my glass as I do watching my hermit crab or any of the other larger animals.

wish i knew, but it sounds like a water flea of something close to it. probably not a bristleworm, they don't have legs. Its not strange at all to like watching the little critters in your tank just as much or more then the bigger ones. The little ones are just so cute

 

[MasterOfReason]

I was aware of the copper tolerance thing and I suppose it is cruel to determine if I had an excess by just sticking him in there but I hadn't added anything that was supposed to have contained it. And the test kit was more expensive than the shrimp.

Also I identified one of my tiny little critters
Clytemnestra Gracilis

Or at least I am sure from pictures that he is Clytemnestra and Gracilis happens to be the Caribbean variety.

 

[SubRosa]

You've been very successful for almost a month now. Bravo! Talk to me this time next year!

 

[the wizard]

It seems to me, that trying to develop a "self contained" aquarium would be more work than being a fish keeper and actually maintaining an aquarium.

Not to mention that there is a certain joy that comes from successfully maintaining an aquarium. I enjoy doing my water tests and water changes. It is during those moments that you notice the new growth that occurs in your aquarium.

To set up a tank and do nothing more than look at it once in a while doesn't make sense to me. You might as well just go to sea world.

If you can pull it off then I tip my hat to you, that will be quite the achievement. At the same time however, you will miss out on some of the simple pleasures of this hobby. It is a thrill to approach your tank and instead of heading for cover, your fish come to the foreground to greet you.

They will not do that if you are not feeding them regularly or spending time doing tank maintenance. They do it because they get used to your presence and they get used to you doing things in the tank and not causing them harm.

To be honest, I hope you decide that your original idea will be too much work and go with standard aquarium keeping so that you too will experience and enjoy some of the simple pleasures this hobby brings.

Which ever path you take I do wish you success and hope it all works out.

 

[MasterOfReason]

Update

I perform water tests fairly regularly though instead of enjoying the activity, I look at it more with apprehension, afraid each test will reveal the presence of some nearly insurmountable chemical problem and require a water change. However, my latest test, as of day before yesterday, continues to reveal extremely good water quality. PH 8.4, Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 5.

My girlfriend preformed this test as I have been absent the last week starting a new business (she likes doing the testing). I can see some problems. Long-haired algae is slightly excessive mostly on the glass of the aquarium. I suspect this is due to excess light, as the tank keeps our hours instead of daylight hours.
Where others may solve the fogged glass issue with scraping, I instead, true to the idea of ecosystem, plan to introduce more snails.

Algae has yet to spread to either of my base rocks.

There is continued slow growth of Coraline algae on the glass along with a reduction of it on the live rock. I suspect this is due to a deficiency of the nutrient (possibly calcium?) on which this algae feeds. I hope to do a bit more research and acquire testing kits shortly, and to be able to avoid chemical dosing to solve this problem.

It's also time for a tank top off.

It has also been a over a month into the process, and I still haven't preformed a water change. We'll see how this continues.

 

[Fishfriend1]

well, i went for almost 9 months without a WC. My parims were fine, just topped off and fed them, changed the filter.

IDK if any snails eat hair algae, wish I did. I hear some inverts do.

Good luck, again.

 

[MasterOfReason]

Well did testing again and values were all the same and within specs except specific gravity (the only way I have of testing salinity) was down to 1.021 and nitrates were either 5 ppm or possibly 10 ppm. It is very difficult to tell those two colors apart.

Either way all is well and I will add a 1/2 cup of salt tomorrow. Or maybe a 1/4 cup a day over the next two days as I want the change to be gradual for some new stock I have. I have been absent a lot lately due to starting a new business so the water level fell by about 2 gallons and a cup. I added two gallons tonight. I also fed the tank a few ML of frozen brine shrimp as I know I have not yet established a food web and I felt it was at least necessary for the molly.

I am concerned about calcium levels and phosphate levels. the green hair algae has not gained any more space or glass covering but still remains a minor nuisance. While the coralline algae is absent from the live rock and has only the most meager showing on the sand. I would like to know those two chemical levels but the tests seem to be like 40$ a piece, so they will have to wait a bit. I am going to try to see if I can get my LFS to run the tests a time or two for free.

A while back I added those three snails. A Cerith a Nerite and an Astrea. The Astrea lives. The Cerith we saw being eaten by the hermit crab which by the way is now positively identified as a stripped leg hermit crab. I'm not positive the crab killed the snail but I suspect it and for 80 cents... I don't mind Ill buy some more and if he eats one every now and then... well a food chain is what I want. The Nerite Snail is simply missing. He is probably in one of the holes or crevices of the live rock but no way to know if he is alive or not. Again those are incredibly cheap live stock and from what I've read if I buy a few snails at a time of the same species they will reproduce faster than the hermit will eat them. The Astrea is still doing well.

I went to buy some snails this afternoon in fact but my LFS is closed on Sunday and the Pet Co and Mall Pet Store only carried 4$ Astreas. However while at the Mall I found a Harlequin Serpent Star.

First a little info in my defense. The Mall pet store is not the greatest they rarely have species identified or identified correctly. They don't know the origin of the species they have and the water quality of the tanks is not always optimal. However they would very much like to be better and take suggestions quickly. That being said with a little research we found where this star fish was purchased over a year ago, Its species and determined it was a Caribbean species. Since getting home I have read that normally starfish are supposedly high risk. However, this star fish was "borrowed" for a while for a personal tank where he faced a few challenges including the loss of a leg which is now restored. He has acclimated 3 times in that year from the supplier to store tanks to the employees personal and back to store tanks and faced a few other problems and has always remained healthy so I assume he is pretty hardy. Also the tank he came from was short on salt at only 1.022 (very close to mine). The only other difference from my tank and the source tank was the source tank was higher in nitrates. After some thought I decided I would bring him home. It may prove to be a 10$ mistake as everything I have read says its too early for starfish, but I hope not.

In any case...
I am still very happy with my current results.
Next week I hope to add about 4 Nerite Snails and 4 Cerith Snails and maybe another Astrea.
I would like opinions on whether that many can survive in a 20 gallon tank with only one fish or if I should add a fish first to add to the detritus in the water for a food source. Anyway with luck I can add 4 of each and with more luck they will eventually begin reproducing in numbers such that they will provide one of the sustainable food sources for things like Crabs.

Also the mall pet store is looking into trying to buy live Copepods at my request. When I started the tank I saw several that were probably imported with the live rock or live sand. But as time has progressed and my molly has survived by digging in the sand I have stopped seeing them. Re-introducing these little guys in sufficient numbers for sustainable reproduction would be a dream come true as they would provide at least one food source for the molly and other eventual fish.

I was reading today and came across a generalization that each organism in the tank needed at least 5 to 10 species to feed from for a balanced diet and to create the closed ecosystem I desire. Tell me what you guys think about this generalization.