a new start

wolf13

wolf13

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Mar 13, 2007
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I had been trying to stay off fish sites to keep the urge for more fish down, but after yesterday I need new fish. I am still sorting out what happened and what survived, but I will soon be needing to restock once i am sure things are stable again.

The current survivors appear to be five cardinal tetra's, a single greenfire tetra (probably will not survive alone and is already close to two years old, the cardinals are a mix of ages but all are at least a year old), three dwarf corys and a male and female apisto panduro (the parents were part of the casualties).

So I suddenly have a lot of room in a well planted 55g (36x18x20). I love the greenfires but the store i bought em from no longer carries them so I don't know that I can rebuild my school, and not sure i want to go that route again.

So my dilema, what to do.

As i said, the tank is a well planted (co2 injected) 55g wide, well filtered, lots of hiding spots in driftwood tangles. plants are swords (amazon, dwarf and another species of sword I can't think of off hand) and pennywort. substrate is flourite. Tank has been up about a year and a half or a bit longer.

So I need suggestions on something to put in. I like the tetra schools, but am thinking i'd like to do some bigger fish.

So, in keeping with the SA theme I'd like some ideas since right now I am reeling. I do really enjoy the Apisto's and a lively tank but it would be really nice to have a couple of bigger centerpiece fish.
 
somehow, i knew that was going to come up. yes, i know, but sooner or later i am going to be restocking and I need to get my mind moving forward.

Problem is, I am not 100% sure what happend. My initial suspision is a cascade effect. The timer on my night time airpump went out, so I had been manually plugging it in before bed and unplugging it before i left for work since christmas (CO2, lights and airpump on individual timers normally; CO2 on about a half hour before lights, then off about an hour before lights out, then airpump on about 2 hours after lights out and off just before CO2 on in the morning). I wasn't home for a few days so the airpump hadn't been running (i had left it off a few times before and it hadn't been a problem, though i had had a scare that prompeted me to set it up in the first place. I considered it insurance due to the plant load in there). I got home saturday evening, was overdue for a waterchange but put it off til sunday since i just wanted sleep. fast glance over the tank as i put the food in didn't show anything out of the ordinary.

sunday, when I pulled out the python to do the water change I saw one of the cardinals flopping at the surface. upon closer inspection I suddenly realized that there was big trouble beyond one old cardinal. Big papa panduro was dead on a log and as i scooped him out i saw my starlight bristlnose up against the intake for my large canister (run an eheim 2217 as my primary with an eheim 2213 as a secondary). I found my l333 (which had been out and active the night before, nothing unusual) stuck in her driftwood also dead. the carnage had also claimed most of my tetra's, big momma panduro, two of the dwarf cory's and my clown pleco. I was in a state of shock and didn't do immediate tests before i was already refilling the tank on the final water change (did a double water changed) but i can guess they were very high.

Based on the state of decay, It looked like the clown or the bristlenose died first and may have been dead for a couple of days (were alive and normal when I left). I suspect that O2 dprevation killed them, the starlight bristlenose was by far the largest thing in the tank and the clown has always been the most sensitive to O2 levels (and what prompeted me to get the air pump) and they appeared to be the only things in an advanced state of decay. No indications of disease or malnutrition etc before i left. All were healthy active fish (though the bristlenose and clown were shy and required a flashlight usually to find after dark, something i did not do when i got home). I would further guess that at some point the ammonia level spiked killed the L333 during the night (that one I truly miss, her and the big papa panduro were the centerpeice fishes and always out and friendly) and started killing the older smaller fish as well (original panduros, greenfires).

All thats just a guess; otherwise nothing has been changed in the tank in a few months: param's, no new fish, plant load, fert, filtration all have been constant, regular water changes.

I'll be letting things run and doing partial water changes for a few days straight now, but after the water changes last night everybody left seemed in decent health and swimming easily. however, while i got the large ones out, its possible i missed some of the smaller ones. I also won't be adding for a while yet until I am sure things have stabilized and i have a new air pump timer.
 
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wow hate to hear that, yeah waiting a few weeks to let things stabilize is a good idea
 
Ok, I'm guessing that you had a night time air pump to degass the CO2. That's not necessary. CO2 degasses from water very quickly and with plants putting 02 back in the water until the lights and CO2 go off the residual in minimal.

Reading between the lines, it seems that your tank was much due for maintenance and that life got in the way of you being able to take care of it consistently. I've been there done that and had the fish deaths to prove it.

I don't think you need to be gun shy about getting your tank back rolling along. I think you just need to do a thorough gravel vac and several large water changes over a 10 day period.

With 2 properly maintained Eheims, you shouldn't have any problems like what occured. I suspect they were long due for maintenance as well and thus an anoxic condition was created in them. When you do a water change, put some in a 5 gallon bucket and rinse the Eheim media out thoroughly. This should get them back to peak condition without destroying your bacteria.
 
actually, the pump is not for degassing CO2, its for surface agitation to bring in O2 (CO2 concerns are addressed by shutting off the CO2 before the lights, it saves on CO2 that would be degassed overnight and doesn't let it build up to toxic levels). During lights off, the plants use O2 as part of their respiration cycle since photosynthisis is not occuring. With a high enough plant load by the end of the nocturnal cycle oxygen levels can get depleted. I only had one big scare that prompted the pump (til now) but a couple of times i noticed distressed behaviour late in the nocturnal cycle. Since I had gotten the pump I had noticed no problems, so it was pretty foolish not to replace the timer.

As far as the filters go, yeah, I had gotten behind and they did need a cleaning, normally i alternate on cleaning them, but i think i skipped the 2217 on the last go around. however, I have never had a large enough bioload in this tank that the bacteria has ever fully cycled (i've tried to set up qt tanks using the 2213 and its been a dud everytime), the jungle is too aggressive a nutriant sink and i actually have to fertlize N. The Eheims are almost purely for mechanical filtration and water circulation (as well as peat filtration).

Irregardless, probably something I did or didn't do screwed up. might have been a combination of things I did or just one thing I neglected but it happened. Now to make sure it doesn't happen again.

So back to the drawing board and planning.
 
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OT Lol, no such word as irregardless...it's regardless.

It looks like you didn't really have any stocking issues, but let's review:

Can you put counts next to each type of fish and add any that I missed?

cardinals
panduros pair?
starlight
L333
dwarf corys
clown pleco
tetras

It doesn't look like you had any stocking issues, but I want to be sure. With 2 canisters, surely not a problem.

I doubt seriously it was an O2 problem. I have far more fish in my 40L and my CO2 stays on 24/7. I have lots of plants in there too and its only filter is my xP3.

Has anyone used any hairsprays, bug sprays, air freshener in that room?

Did the power go out at any time recently?

Have you checked to make sure a heater didn't go wacky?
 
Put that pump on a timer and go get yourself some new fish.

S.A., soft water, big, centerpice... hum...
That screams discus.
But you can't mess around with them... Its a serious commitment.
Angels would work, they're big, pretty and they're much hardier than discus. Traditional silvers are very nice and a natural look. Personally, especially in a planted tank with a black background I love my dd blacks. They're huge and beautiful but they blend into the shadows and the background. Its wild to have fish that big be so unobtrusive.
 
as far as hairspray etc nope, and no power outages recently. heater seems fine, water temp seemed normal. You might be right on the filters, I will probably never know for sure.

yeah, not really overstocked.
cardinals x8
panduros 2 x pair (1 3 inch male, one 2.5 inch male, one 2 inch female, 1 1.5 inch female)
starlight (~6 inches)
L333 (~4.5 -5 inches)
dwarf corys x5
clown pleco (3.5 inch)
greenfire tetras x7

please don't say discus; I love discus, and want to someday get some; but yeah, well. I love the fully planted tanks with discus and some dithers, but working my way there, when i do it i want to do it right. My next move I plan to be sure to have room for a large tank and then we'll see.

Angels I have long thought about and now I am also thinking about blue acara's.
 
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