A Newbie Horror Story. Please help us. Other newbies, please learn from our mistakes!

[Kuhlifan]

Definitely, get a couple more tanks and spread your fish out. It's expensive, but it would be best for the fish.

A lot of chemicals that are used to treat fish are toxic to aquarium invertebrates, such as shrimp or snails. Your snail likely died from the salt or medicine you put in for the ich.

 

[LeahK]

My idea behind doing this is to keep the ammonia/nitrites levels just enough to stimulate the growth of the beneficial bacteria, and yet not too high to stress out and hurt the fish.My reasoning may be flawed because I’ve also read that technically any amount of ammonia and nitrites is bad for the fish....
I also fear that by these frequent water changes will remove the ammonia/ nitrites to the extent that the nitrosomonas and nitrobacter may not form at all.

Like others here, I'm so sorry to hear about your problems, and I've seen the exact sort of thing happen to people who shop at US pet stores. I guess you know by now, the internet is your best friend for aquarium info

About the issue of water changes and bacterial growth, I do not think that frequent water changes will slow or stall your cycle. Here's how I understand it:

*Test kits begin measuring ammonia and nitrite at 0.25. The levels between 0 and 0.25 are not detectable by our kits. Anything above 0.25 is harmful to fish.
*In a cycled tank, fish are constantly producing ammonia, and the bacteria are constantly consuming ammonia and nitrite, so that the levels never reaches 0.25. If you get a reading ABOVE 0.25, then there is too much ammonia/nitrite for the bacteria to consume.
*In such a case, a water change will remove the excess. However, it will leave behind trace amounts BELOW 0.25. These trace amounts are plenty to sustain the bacteria that cycle the tank--plus, the fish are making new ammonia all the time anyway, so these trace amounts quickly become measurable again. You don't need a bacteria colony large enough to consume ammonia that is spiking to levels like 1 or 2. You just need a colony large enough to consume the ammonia as it is produced--which, again, in a cycled tank, will never go above 0.25. If the levels are above 0.25, then you've more than enough for your bacteria and too much for your fish. Thus, removing excess amounts above 0.25 only help your fish and do not harm your cycle.

I'm kind of a newbie still, too, but this is my understanding of the relation between water changes and cycling. Hope that helps!

 

[aquamate]

A few more questions...

Thanks for all the support and suggestions guys!

I am now considering adding a couple of plants like many of you have suggested. They would definitely do my tank some good. The problem is I don't know what kind I should get, and what kind of soil. I will also have to try to find a place where I can obtain them over here.
It may sound silly, but can I grow plants in the gravel that I have right now?

Also of concern to me is the fact that my herbivorous Silver Dollars may destroy them within a couple of days; I've read that they are notorious for doing so.

I was just wondering, if it were possible to re-home some of fish, which ones should I re-home? And which ones can I get in their place? If possible, can you suggest some brightly colored ones; my kids are crazy about that...

 

[jlink17]

Nice looking tank! Thought you might also want to know that

is actually a halfblack angel not a silver.

is actually a red wag platy and not a Mickey Mouse Platy. Mickey Mouse platy have what looks like Mickey Mouses head on their tail.

is a gold marble angel.

Keep up with your water changes on a daily basis. I would do 50% water changes daily to keep the nitrites and ammonia down and maybe even 2xs a day if you have to with that many fish in that small a tank. If you stick around here you will be on the right track for sure as there are many experts on here that are more than willing to help. Good Luck!

 

[aquamate]

Questions...and more questions

jlink17, Thanks a bunch for letting me know what my fish are really called. God that's embarassing; I don't even know the correct names of the fish in my care!

Thanks guys for the compliments on my tank appearance. Actually I had thought my tank is pretty ordinary looking compared to the dream stuff showcased in the 'tank of the month' forum.

Things are happening to me and my aquarium on almost a daily basis.:nilly:

Today, one of my red wag platy (the one with the Ich) suddenly went berserk and started hunting down the other one. He would dart straight across wherever the other guy was and ram his mouth into his side. For what reason, God only knows. This seemed to inspire the male Tangerine swordtail and then a couple of Angelfish; they all started having a nip at whatever came close to them. Soon there was a free-for-all raging in my aquarium. It was like one of those bar-room brawls we see in the movies. Even the usually placid Silver Dollar tried to take a bite out of the tail of an angelfish.

I shook my head and massaged my eyes with my fingers. As if having uncertain ammonia/nitrite levels were not enough for them, that they should suddenly turn into cowboys at the OK Coral (no pun intended!)
Or perhaps the ammonia and nitrites were doing it to them.

Anyway, my wife and I came to a firm conclusion that we must do something before they kill each other. So just like the bouncers in the clubs who evict the trouble-makers, we packed the two red wag platys off to the Aquarium dealer. He told us that this had happened because both of them were females and this was the reason for the chaos they were creating. He put them back into an empty tank and asked us which we wanted in exchange for them. We did not take any fish in return. By Nature's own doing, my aquarium bioload decreased by 2 fish. And that meant less ammonia/ nitrites to deal with.

Interestingly, the removal of the Platys had a quieting effect on the other fish and now it is only the male Tangerine Swordtail who's acting irritable (maybe he's missing his two girlfriends!) I don't know what to make of it. We put it down to some mating problems and the like but...is this like normal??

I have decided to get those Ammonia/ Nitrite Test Kits in the next few days if I have to mug an Aquarium Supplier in Mumbai for it! I think that is the only thing that'll let me know if things are progressing the right way or not.

Any feedback on my live plants queries, guys? I also intend to set up a 10G quarantine tank where I can put my fantail goldfish. He's swimming in a bucket right now (25% dechlorinated water changes with siphoning of poop daily, one air-pump outlet, an ornament to hide in but nothing else) This will be until he's free from Ich (about 2 weeks) and until I think of what to do with him. With those unsightly black patches on his back, I don't think any of my friends/ dealers would be ready to re-home him.

Now my Main tank has:
1 x 3 inch Pleco
2 x 1.5 inch Tangerine Swordtails
2 x 2 inch Gold-Marble Angelfish
2 x 1.5 inch Half-back Angelfish
2 x 1.5 inch Silver Dollars

My plan is to go in for a much bigger tank after a few months, into which I'll shift the bigger fish. Any idea how much time before my fish grown in size and my existing tank becomes too small for them? Or is it too small for them already? Should I shift any of them into the 10G quarantine tank along with the 1.5 inch fantail goldfish?

Perhaps, too many questions from me...too little time...:thud:

 

[Jspigs]

If you can get a test kit be sure to get a liquid test kit because the strips are not accurate.

 

[Reframer]

If you can't get a kit, then make sure you are doing at least 50% water changes every other day at the minimum for 2 weeks. Then can decrease to 50% 2 times a week for 2 weeks, then to 30=50% once a week.
I'm sorry, you will not be able to keep those fish alive in that tank. All of them except the swordtails are going to be too big for that tank. Why not just bring everybody back and then take your time to cycle the tank and let us help you plan your stock? What size tank are you thinking of getting to upgrade to? Are you positive you can afford it and remember that it too will need to be cycled somehow.
FYI, snails can't take either salt or potassium, and don't carry ich so can be taken when treating the tank.
Most people here have been thru something similar!

 

[aquamate]

Update...

Thanks Reframer, for the advice on water changes. And I really appreciate your offering to help me out in stocking a future bigger tank. I'd really need that advice.

My current status is as follows:

Tomorrow I am also returning the 2 Half-back angelfishes as well because they too have become over aggressive and are nipping everything and everything in sight. Unlike in the US, the store owner here is not too happy about us returning any fish. I may even have to forgo the money I paid for them. But that'd be better than seeing them kill the other fish in front of my eyes. :huh:
So as you can see, even if I wanted, I may not be able to take all the fish back and wait for my tank to cycle, which as you've correctly pointed out, would be the ideal thing to do.

That brings my livestock down to 2 Silver Dollars, 1 Pleco, 2 Swordtail Tangerines and 2 Marble-Gold Angelfishes in my 16G tank. The Fantail Goldfish is happy in the quarantine tub of his own. I wonder if I can pull on with the same number of fish for the next 2 months by which time I hope my tank will have cycled. We are thinking of a larger tank later around 50G or so; we're thinking of where to accommodate it for now. Then we can shift the 2 Silver Dollars and 2 Marble-Gold Angelfish (provided they survive!) into the same, 'coz each has an adult size of 6 inches or so, right? Then we can perhaps add some Rasboras or some other nice small fishes to the existing tank...
I would still not know what to do with my Fantail Goldfish then, but I have too much on my plate for now. Hopefully, I'll think up something or get some advice on that on AC later.
We have decided to stay away from snails and the like for now.

I have been calling up every Aquarium shop in Mumbai. They all have either never heard of Ammonia/Nitrite test kits or they feel it is 'not necessary' and cannot provide me with the same. This week I'm making a trip to Mumbai for the same and to get some live plants if possible.

Thanks again...