Will be getting some Apistogramma pandorini soon. I've kept A. cacatuoides and am looking for any species specific advise or anicdotes.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
A. pandorini experience?
- Thread starter mooman
- Start date
Hi again - best place to point you is here - http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/A-pandurini.html. The species name stands as A. panduro, that may help you if you try to google for more information. These were some of my favorite Apistos, a bit milder than their A. nijsseni brethren, part of that large complex of aggressive stout fish. Great coloration on the males with their light blue colors and the females are gorgeous in yellow/black spawning coloration. I remember most people reporting they needed pH 6.0 and under and TDS under 120ppm or so to get them to breed with viable eggs. Great fish. I would point you to the Apisto mailing list but there is precious little traffic on it these days.. the archives might be better to search - try here: http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto/.
Good luck -
>Sarah
Good luck -
>Sarah
I just saw your post under the other thread about getting a possible trio of panduro or aggassizi, thought I would post here.
For panduro, I kept a single pair in a 30 and that worked beautifully. Unless it is a very large tank I would not do two females to one male. The males in the nijsseni complex are usually monogamous and spawn with the dominate female in the tank. In a trio situation the lone female may or may be spawned with, but she will most certainly be chased by the dominant female if she's sighted while the dominant has eggs or fry at almost any stage. I think your tank is a 29, right? I'd stick with the pair. A trio is a gamble and if your LFS is asking for a lot of money for them I wouldnt try it.
Aggassizi is a slightly different story. These are much less aggressive as far as Apistos go and a trio would probably work well in a 29gal. There is an org member here SN Zman and he would know - I only kept aggies once in a 10gallon in a pair setup. They are very rewarding 'starter' Apistos. Water quality needs are about the same as the panduro's.. perhaps a bit higher pH in the areas of pH 6.0 to 6.5.
A good link to keep in mind is Mike Jacob's online biz for wild and rarer Apistos, he usually has very good prices, excellent stock, shipping's a killer in the winter though, better to do that buisness in the summer. A good site to go to to drool over the fish though..
http://www.southernapistos.com
>Sarah
For panduro, I kept a single pair in a 30 and that worked beautifully. Unless it is a very large tank I would not do two females to one male. The males in the nijsseni complex are usually monogamous and spawn with the dominate female in the tank. In a trio situation the lone female may or may be spawned with, but she will most certainly be chased by the dominant female if she's sighted while the dominant has eggs or fry at almost any stage. I think your tank is a 29, right? I'd stick with the pair. A trio is a gamble and if your LFS is asking for a lot of money for them I wouldnt try it.
Aggassizi is a slightly different story. These are much less aggressive as far as Apistos go and a trio would probably work well in a 29gal. There is an org member here SN Zman and he would know - I only kept aggies once in a 10gallon in a pair setup. They are very rewarding 'starter' Apistos. Water quality needs are about the same as the panduro's.. perhaps a bit higher pH in the areas of pH 6.0 to 6.5.
A good link to keep in mind is Mike Jacob's online biz for wild and rarer Apistos, he usually has very good prices, excellent stock, shipping's a killer in the winter though, better to do that buisness in the summer. A good site to go to to drool over the fish though..
http://www.southernapistos.com>Sarah
Thanks for the info Samala
I've pretty much read everything on thekrib and aquarticles.com twice now, and have started going through info on apistogramma.com. As for multiple females, I got 2 (picked them up last night) because I heard that they could be picky when it comes to pairing up. I have a 10g with a mature filter ready to remove second female if aggression become a problem. I was also thinking of moving female and eggs when she lays them to the 10g (drain 10g, fill with water from 29g and move mother and "cave" in a container of tank water). This would limit fry predation by dithers also. I heard this suggested by one of the "heavies" on thekrib, I think it was zman but not sure. Any thoughts on that?
Second, my tap water is ph=7.2, hardness=130ppm, dkh=2. My cacs didn't mind it and spawned (I only saw 4 free swiming fry, but they were there for about 24hours) after only a week. I'm loath to screw with ph unless I can keep it stable. What is you experience with this. I was thinking peat in a filter bag in my water change bucket. Bring it down slowly over a few weeks. Should I start using RO for that or will the softening effect of the peat be enough to lower hardness?
Any advise would help.
PS the panduro's look awesome
I've pretty much read everything on thekrib and aquarticles.com twice now, and have started going through info on apistogramma.com. As for multiple females, I got 2 (picked them up last night) because I heard that they could be picky when it comes to pairing up. I have a 10g with a mature filter ready to remove second female if aggression become a problem. I was also thinking of moving female and eggs when she lays them to the 10g (drain 10g, fill with water from 29g and move mother and "cave" in a container of tank water). This would limit fry predation by dithers also. I heard this suggested by one of the "heavies" on thekrib, I think it was zman but not sure. Any thoughts on that?
Second, my tap water is ph=7.2, hardness=130ppm, dkh=2. My cacs didn't mind it and spawned (I only saw 4 free swiming fry, but they were there for about 24hours) after only a week. I'm loath to screw with ph unless I can keep it stable. What is you experience with this. I was thinking peat in a filter bag in my water change bucket. Bring it down slowly over a few weeks. Should I start using RO for that or will the softening effect of the peat be enough to lower hardness?
Any advise would help.
PS the panduro's look awesome
Peat would be my choice. Be very careful with where you get this to be sure its just peat.. sometimes if its labeled for garden stores they will add other organic stuffs to it and sometimes fertilizer as well. I think I mentioned Fluval sold peat granules for use in canister filters.. thats what I used because I was a bit paranoid about peat. A bit of it in a filter mesh bag would work great. I think some people were using Jiffy peat pellets (many Home Depots will be carrying this at this time of year when gardeners are starting plants indoors for spring). Those I would also put into a filter mesh bag to contain the smaller peices.
I'd try peat first and if it doesnt move the pH and gH values enough then resort to RO water changes. Just my thoughts from a cost perspective...
As far as removing spawning females: if you think the dithers have a shot at picking off the fry, then its worth the gamble of moving mom and eggs into a separate tank. Sometimes the females will be too stressed from this and will eat their eggs.. I havent had that happen but its always a possibility. I would go ahead and throw a sponge filter into your current filter setup now to start culturing some bacteria on the sponge media. That way you'll have it when you need it.
>Sarah
I'd try peat first and if it doesnt move the pH and gH values enough then resort to RO water changes. Just my thoughts from a cost perspective...
As far as removing spawning females: if you think the dithers have a shot at picking off the fry, then its worth the gamble of moving mom and eggs into a separate tank. Sometimes the females will be too stressed from this and will eat their eggs.. I havent had that happen but its always a possibility. I would go ahead and throw a sponge filter into your current filter setup now to start culturing some bacteria on the sponge media. That way you'll have it when you need it.
>Sarah
I had a pair of wild caught pandurini I picked up at auction. They were especially nasty and secretive, and the male was the biggest apisto I've seen, almost 4 inches!
They were pretty tough, but really appreciated water changes. They would spawn but I never got any eggs to hatch till I really reduced the pH to under 6. My tap water is kH 0 or 1, pH 7.2, 7.4 by the way.
In comparism some tank bred nijssenni I had were very frail.
They were pretty tough, but really appreciated water changes. They would spawn but I never got any eggs to hatch till I really reduced the pH to under 6. My tap water is kH 0 or 1, pH 7.2, 7.4 by the way.
In comparism some tank bred nijssenni I had were very frail.
Samala,
I'm going to go with the peat pellets and boil them first to be safe. That's funny that you mentioned the sponge filter, I did that a month ago and thought I was so smart for thinking of it. I have an eclipse filter and I put it right in the filter tray. It working great.
So far the panduro look awesome. The male and one of the females have already started shaking, tail curling and "shopping for houses". Downside is the second female is having to keep a low profile. Since she is still covered under the 48 hour warranty, I will return her tonight. Her exsistence in the tank now would not be pleasant. It's a shame because she is a very nice looking fish.
I'm going to go with the peat pellets and boil them first to be safe. That's funny that you mentioned the sponge filter, I did that a month ago and thought I was so smart for thinking of it. I have an eclipse filter and I put it right in the filter tray. It working great.
So far the panduro look awesome. The male and one of the females have already started shaking, tail curling and "shopping for houses". Downside is the second female is having to keep a low profile. Since she is still covered under the 48 hour warranty, I will return her tonight. Her exsistence in the tank now would not be pleasant. It's a shame because she is a very nice looking fish.