Eke! I hope your fish continue survive your close call...& that's all it is, a close call without major damages. Must be your cycled sponges were further along than you thought +/or the Amquel was enough for the cycle "gaps". I know you don't care too much about the eggs now...but it all sounds like they will live long & prosper (spock hands!) So more fry to raise & sell...it's an endless circle of pleco breeders...& many fish breeders in less lucrative ways...Good luck!
Adventures in Fishkeeping or A Fish Tale
- Thread starter TwoTankAmin
- Start date
I am not one inclined to anthropomorphize. But the bug clown loach which had passed had occupied a large cave I got specifically for the clowns. It was the boss and it claimed that cave. At times other would grab it when the boss was out, but the never stayed all that long. I have an assortment of other caves, but the one the boss claimed was the best one. It was big, but not too big and the boss fit perfectly.
I think the boss was a gal because she had more girth than my other two big ones.
In the past five weeks since the boss was removed from the tank, neother of the two big ones has entered that vvave. I have seen them both at times poised at the entrance as if they wanted to go it, but they have not so far. The two of them tend to shelter behind a big log with which they have lived since I got them.
I cannot explain the above without haveing to believe that those two clowns remember whose cave that was and they either fear the boss may return or else they have not come to terms with the loss. Either way I have to read this as some form of emotion or memory or both.
I think the boss was a gal because she had more girth than my other two big ones.
In the past five weeks since the boss was removed from the tank, neother of the two big ones has entered that vvave. I have seen them both at times poised at the entrance as if they wanted to go it, but they have not so far. The two of them tend to shelter behind a big log with which they have lived since I got them.
I cannot explain the above without haveing to believe that those two clowns remember whose cave that was and they either fear the boss may return or else they have not come to terms with the loss. Either way I have to read this as some form of emotion or memory or both.
Results are the same for me if I mess with any of the darling bride's things. The fear will remain..
LoL, FF!
You know TTA, when 1 of my clowns died it was very quickly coated in a very stinky slime (overnight). I wonder if your "big girl" left a bit of stench that you couldn't smell but the other loaches can. Is the cave a porous material, like wood or maybe ceramic that might hold traces of stink?
I'm guessing that may be more likely but it could be just the "queen's cave". None of my clowns (smaller than yours) had any problem occupying the "good" cave whenever possible...but it was also right next to my computer chair...they all seemed to like blue screened sites (like LOL & AC of old) or maybe just my magnetic presence? Food goddess? Might have been...
You know TTA, when 1 of my clowns died it was very quickly coated in a very stinky slime (overnight). I wonder if your "big girl" left a bit of stench that you couldn't smell but the other loaches can. Is the cave a porous material, like wood or maybe ceramic that might hold traces of stink?
I'm guessing that may be more likely but it could be just the "queen's cave". None of my clowns (smaller than yours) had any problem occupying the "good" cave whenever possible...but it was also right next to my computer chair...they all seemed to like blue screened sites (like LOL & AC of old) or maybe just my magnetic presence? Food goddess? Might have been...
I think I found the dead clown withing 12 or fewer hours of death. I removed the fish to a bucket of water, I was too busy to deal with it immediately. It was not until the following day that I get out to my garden dig a big hole. By then the slime coat had begun to come off. I doubt there was much "stink" left behind. I also did a major water change after I remove the fish.
We are now over a month since the death, There have been a few more big water changes since. Still neither of the two remaining big clowns will use the cave so far. I spotted one of them peering into the cave, but it would not go in.
Because I started so late in life with fish and because of subsequent family and then health issues I was never able to do what I would have loved to, visit Brazil and the Big Bend of the Rio Xingu. I have never been able to observe any of the fish I keep as they live in the wild. So I am totally unqualified to comment on their behavior there.
But just the way people who are missing one of their senses, blindness, deafness etc, learn to cope with what they do have, I have spent a lot of time observing my fish in tanks. No matter how hard we try, we can never give out fish an environment that comes even almost like nature. Imo, the result is that there are some obvious difference between the behavior of fish in the wild and in tanks.
Because this house has no basement, my tanks are spread out all over living spaces. At my peak I had 3 tanks in my bathroom, 9 in my bedroom and another 5 in the adjacent room which used to be a "library room." I also used to have another 9 in the fish space in our semi-detached guest building and storeroom.
Up until the most recent yeat I have done 50%+ weekly water changes on all tanks and cleaned whatever needed to be at the time. I am surrounded by tanks and I watch my fish on and off all day long. I am pretty observant and I can tell you a lot about how the species I keep behave in their tanks. I have digital and mechanical testing equipment and I stay on top of my parameters. The point is I have spent a lot of time watching my fish over the years.
So I know the water in the clow tank is good and there is not rsidiual evidence of the one that passed in the water. That cannot explain what I am seeing as far as I am concerned. The other thing I have noticed is the big one was the tank boss. The other two slightly smaller would occasionally challenge for the top spot. But I never saw those two fighting each other. Since the big one passed i have caught the other two going at it. I also often notice the two hiding behind the big log and touching each other as clowns do. It appears to me they are somewhat arguing about who is top dog. But they do not seem to put their hearts into the squabble the way it all went when the three (including the dead one) fought for a few months to establish the pecking order that lasted for about 15 years.
This sort fo thing is exactly why I love this hobby. After almost 23 years I am still learning and still observing how fish behave in tanks. It is not the same as they do in the wild for the most part. It is not radically different but it is not the same as in the wild. Part of this has to do with the fact that every tank is different as is how we as keepers may set them up, build a scape and then select the fish that go into it.
We are now over a month since the death, There have been a few more big water changes since. Still neither of the two remaining big clowns will use the cave so far. I spotted one of them peering into the cave, but it would not go in.
Because I started so late in life with fish and because of subsequent family and then health issues I was never able to do what I would have loved to, visit Brazil and the Big Bend of the Rio Xingu. I have never been able to observe any of the fish I keep as they live in the wild. So I am totally unqualified to comment on their behavior there.
But just the way people who are missing one of their senses, blindness, deafness etc, learn to cope with what they do have, I have spent a lot of time observing my fish in tanks. No matter how hard we try, we can never give out fish an environment that comes even almost like nature. Imo, the result is that there are some obvious difference between the behavior of fish in the wild and in tanks.
Because this house has no basement, my tanks are spread out all over living spaces. At my peak I had 3 tanks in my bathroom, 9 in my bedroom and another 5 in the adjacent room which used to be a "library room." I also used to have another 9 in the fish space in our semi-detached guest building and storeroom.
Up until the most recent yeat I have done 50%+ weekly water changes on all tanks and cleaned whatever needed to be at the time. I am surrounded by tanks and I watch my fish on and off all day long. I am pretty observant and I can tell you a lot about how the species I keep behave in their tanks. I have digital and mechanical testing equipment and I stay on top of my parameters. The point is I have spent a lot of time watching my fish over the years.
So I know the water in the clow tank is good and there is not rsidiual evidence of the one that passed in the water. That cannot explain what I am seeing as far as I am concerned. The other thing I have noticed is the big one was the tank boss. The other two slightly smaller would occasionally challenge for the top spot. But I never saw those two fighting each other. Since the big one passed i have caught the other two going at it. I also often notice the two hiding behind the big log and touching each other as clowns do. It appears to me they are somewhat arguing about who is top dog. But they do not seem to put their hearts into the squabble the way it all went when the three (including the dead one) fought for a few months to establish the pecking order that lasted for about 15 years.
This sort fo thing is exactly why I love this hobby. After almost 23 years I am still learning and still observing how fish behave in tanks. It is not the same as they do in the wild for the most part. It is not radically different but it is not the same as in the wild. Part of this has to do with the fact that every tank is different as is how we as keepers may set them up, build a scape and then select the fish that go into it.
Wow over 3 months since the last post. Time flies when you get old I guess.
I am working on tanks as usual. I was about to do water changes and general maint. on the WC l173 breeder tank. I have not really check up on what is going on in there for some time. Probably not since last Oct. related to CatCon. So I got out the trusty flashlight. lubricated these old joints and bones and got down on hands and knees to inspect the tanks, caves and to see who was hiding where. I have seen tiny fry off and on and figured there might be a few kids in the tank.
No such luck. Everywhere I shone the light was filled with assorted size offspring. I even had a cave with about to be released fry in it. It would not surprirse me if there were 50 offspring in there. YIKES! And I have 6 currently listed and another group of 7 behind them to list plus a bunch in growout.
I have to sell the breeders sooner rather than later. The SW 236 are also spawning. I have a lot of them in growout and have only sold a dozen so far.
Years ago this kind of results were a dream. Now they are becoming a nightmare.....
And even thoough I sold both the TR 173 breeders and the RB line of 236 breeders last year, I still have offspring from them numbering in the 125 fish range.
I am working on tanks as usual. I was about to do water changes and general maint. on the WC l173 breeder tank. I have not really check up on what is going on in there for some time. Probably not since last Oct. related to CatCon. So I got out the trusty flashlight. lubricated these old joints and bones and got down on hands and knees to inspect the tanks, caves and to see who was hiding where. I have seen tiny fry off and on and figured there might be a few kids in the tank.
No such luck. Everywhere I shone the light was filled with assorted size offspring. I even had a cave with about to be released fry in it. It would not surprirse me if there were 50 offspring in there. YIKES! And I have 6 currently listed and another group of 7 behind them to list plus a bunch in growout.
I have to sell the breeders sooner rather than later. The SW 236 are also spawning. I have a lot of them in growout and have only sold a dozen so far.
Years ago this kind of results were a dream. Now they are becoming a nightmare.....
And even thoough I sold both the TR 173 breeders and the RB line of 236 breeders last year, I still have offspring from them numbering in the 125 fish range.
Well, darn? you have even more cool rare pleco fry?!? It's hard to feel too sorry for your fecund rare fish sightings. I know, I know, you want to stop keeping fish...but we all know how that happens, M & F often = babies, especially in your magic well water.
You didn't like my suggestion of tiny fish condoms, lol. So, you've got a bunch more fry & adults!! to sell before they breed again...& again. The joy & curse of good fish husbandry but with expensive fish...
So how many species/strains of your pretty black & white plecos do you still have? SW 236, 173, & 046? More? It's hard to keep track...But work on selling an entire species/line to get them out of your tanks? (dang, it hurts to type that!). Maybe a more gradual retirement 1 less species at a time? I know it doesn't fit with your retirement plan...Can you hire a local HS kid to help with the WCs, fish catching, etc a few hours/week? For this spring/summer & maybe fall? Besides CatCon there have got to be East Coast meets over several days. I lived on the East Coast but not near NYC. Put your radar out there, Aquabid? I don't keep up there. Scotcat? There should be a pleco world but I'm not sure there is by that name any more. I'm sure you know more sites...We discussed this many times...
You didn't like my suggestion of tiny fish condoms, lol. So, you've got a bunch more fry & adults!! to sell before they breed again...& again. The joy & curse of good fish husbandry but with expensive fish...
So how many species/strains of your pretty black & white plecos do you still have? SW 236, 173, & 046? More? It's hard to keep track...But work on selling an entire species/line to get them out of your tanks? (dang, it hurts to type that!). Maybe a more gradual retirement 1 less species at a time? I know it doesn't fit with your retirement plan...Can you hire a local HS kid to help with the WCs, fish catching, etc a few hours/week? For this spring/summer & maybe fall? Besides CatCon there have got to be East Coast meets over several days. I lived on the East Coast but not near NYC. Put your radar out there, Aquabid? I don't keep up there. Scotcat? There should be a pleco world but I'm not sure there is by that name any more. I'm sure you know more sites...We discussed this many times...
I have breedable zebra, xw 236, WC 173. However, my offsrping for some species are nearing breeding isze/age. Plus I have maybe 15 -20 adult size RB line 236 and TR 173 offs[pring being returned from a larger group I sent to be sold on your coast. About 24 -30% did not sell at the event. My friend has bough some of these from me way back and hey are breeding for her, She should be selling her fish before mine
At some point I see myself having to sell things very cheap to move them out fast. We are getting close on my secure laptop. I an pissed that the only way to do it is by getting a smart phone to get onto the net. The phone will have a lot of its fundtion disabled and will never be use for anything besides selling fish. The laptop will have no connection to the rest of my life except I need to be able to read emails so I can confirm payments via Zelle or Paypal.
We are putting together a system that requires the insertion of an external drive which is the only way to access certain stuff. Take out that and it is basically a dumb PC with not uselful data on it. The phone serves as my hotspot for just the my unit. I will never make a phone call, never use the camera or microphone, and downoad no apps at all. It is really hard to be anonymous via a phone without a lot of effort.
I hate advertising. As a kid before they invented the remote control I watcged TV cose enough to reach the channel dial for when the commercials came on. I can follow close to three different programs by flipping channels during commercials. They finally got wise and now most channels run their adds at similar time intervals. But not for movies.....
At some point I see myself having to sell things very cheap to move them out fast. We are getting close on my secure laptop. I an pissed that the only way to do it is by getting a smart phone to get onto the net. The phone will have a lot of its fundtion disabled and will never be use for anything besides selling fish. The laptop will have no connection to the rest of my life except I need to be able to read emails so I can confirm payments via Zelle or Paypal.
We are putting together a system that requires the insertion of an external drive which is the only way to access certain stuff. Take out that and it is basically a dumb PC with not uselful data on it. The phone serves as my hotspot for just the my unit. I will never make a phone call, never use the camera or microphone, and downoad no apps at all. It is really hard to be anonymous via a phone without a lot of effort.
I hate advertising. As a kid before they invented the remote control I watcged TV cose enough to reach the channel dial for when the commercials came on. I can follow close to three different programs by flipping channels during commercials. They finally got wise and now most channels run their adds at similar time intervals. But not for movies.....
Oh, I thought you'd "gotten rid of" (sold off) all your RB 236 & TR 173. I didn't realize there was a "return to breeder" clause...but that seems a good policy. I'm sorry your friend on "my coast" 
couldn't sell them all. She's done very well by your plecos for years now.
As far as TV goes my older brother was in control of Sat. morning cartoons & more tv as kids, just like you. It wasn't until I'd been married for a little while that I had to say "I'd like an opinion please". I'm not as into tv as others might be, I actually prefer to read if nothing "good" is on but I do want a vote as to what the background noise is...& you're the older bro. I'm not sure you get it....My older bro doesn't...thank goodness I have control of my tv remote sometimes...we share that power now, lol, after 45 years I feel equal when I need to express that ability...but only rarely, I'm still mostly indifferent to a lot of tv...& I still like to read
couldn't sell them all. She's done very well by your plecos for years now.As far as TV goes my older brother was in control of Sat. morning cartoons & more tv as kids, just like you. It wasn't until I'd been married for a little while that I had to say "I'd like an opinion please". I'm not as into tv as others might be, I actually prefer to read if nothing "good" is on but I do want a vote as to what the background noise is...& you're the older bro. I'm not sure you get it....My older bro doesn't...thank goodness I have control of my tv remote sometimes...we share that power now, lol, after 45 years I feel equal when I need to express that ability...but only rarely, I'm still mostly indifferent to a lot of tv...& I still like to read
Yes she has. But I have also taken good care of her as well. Plus I use her shipping account. I have around 50 offspring from the BR 236 in growout. Getting back 6-8 adult sized fish is not a big deal. With the TR 173 I have about 65-70 offspring. But i am not getting more of either.
My plan had been to sell the breeders in the second hald of the year. I am ready to sell them now.
One another note, I have lost 3 fish in the past month. All from different tanks. I lost a SW 236. Best guess is it was one of the spares from the original group. I got 9 at 2 inches and 4 back-ups at 1/5. My best assessment is it was killed by fighting with a superior male.
I also lost a zebra. I am sure this was one of my original breeders whgich means it was in its 20s and likely about 25. I think he died of old age. The last fish was my lone surviving Atabapo Altum/ I had gotten a bunch of them and they cam with wasting disease. I lost all but one. I then added 4 larger tank raised Altums from the same original breeder but from the buyer of them. All 4 of them are doing great and they are big.
But the lone survivor would never grow. It then began to waste and not to eat. I finally decided to hit the tank with flubendazole on Saturday evening. It was missing sSunday morning and I gad to partly pull apart the tank to find its body stuck in the rock/wood pile. It had been eating but hiding and I blame myself for waiting so long.
The problem was I could not set up an H tank. And then it would need to have 6.0 soft water similar to what ius in the Altum tank, but without the staining.
I am finding it harder and harder to keep up with weekly maint. I am considering going to every other week. Nit so great for the fish but better on me. I am not sure this will work so am reluctant to try.
My plan had been to sell the breeders in the second hald of the year. I am ready to sell them now.
One another note, I have lost 3 fish in the past month. All from different tanks. I lost a SW 236. Best guess is it was one of the spares from the original group. I got 9 at 2 inches and 4 back-ups at 1/5. My best assessment is it was killed by fighting with a superior male.
I also lost a zebra. I am sure this was one of my original breeders whgich means it was in its 20s and likely about 25. I think he died of old age. The last fish was my lone surviving Atabapo Altum/ I had gotten a bunch of them and they cam with wasting disease. I lost all but one. I then added 4 larger tank raised Altums from the same original breeder but from the buyer of them. All 4 of them are doing great and they are big.
But the lone survivor would never grow. It then began to waste and not to eat. I finally decided to hit the tank with flubendazole on Saturday evening. It was missing sSunday morning and I gad to partly pull apart the tank to find its body stuck in the rock/wood pile. It had been eating but hiding and I blame myself for waiting so long.
The problem was I could not set up an H tank. And then it would need to have 6.0 soft water similar to what ius in the Altum tank, but without the staining.
I am finding it harder and harder to keep up with weekly maint. I am considering going to every other week. Nit so great for the fish but better on me. I am not sure this will work so am reluctant to try.
