Advice on a Super-simple, near fail safe setup.

[Zeb]

Hello....

I've been a huge fish geek for a few years now, piling up tanks into a fish room, working in the "pet industry", blah blah blah.....

.....but I've spent my whole time focusing on cichlids. My fiancee loves SW, and yesterday a friend who works at the LFS kinda pushed me into it. Well, he didn't have to push too hard...

Now he claims, and note I don't believe him to be the most credible source, that SW is very easy. ( Somewhat agreed. )

I told him what I would want: a very simple setup...no corals, nothing but fish. Just to get the hang on SW first. In response, he told me all I'd need to do is add salt and fish. He claimed I wouldn't need any special lighting if I didn't want it, nor a skimmer, or anything but a powerfilter and carry out water changes like I would in a FW tank. ( Siphon out the Aragonite, but don't do water changes as often. )

So I went home, and pulled together some items from my inventory. Amazingly, I found some good stuff. Available on the list would be:

Either a 20 Gallon Extra high or a 30 Gallon oceanic tank.
Hagen Biolife internal wet/dry powerfilter & heater combo
Hygrometer & Salt, Marine Flake
Crushed aragonite & Playsand
Dead corals
A variety of pumps & doo-hickeys.

All I'm interested in is cheap, simple fish. I want to get the fish my fiancee will want....that would be Percula clowns, Firefish, Royal Grammas, etc.

Could you give me some advice on the basic equipment needed, how often water changes occur, and some specie suggestions?

My friend said just add salt, next day buy some clownfish. Add slowly. ( I know all about fishless cycling....he says it's not needed. )

 

[OrionGirl]

Fishless cycling is needed in SW, same as FW. The tank will cycle with fish, but the effects are the same as they are on FW fish--gill burns, shortened lifespan, etc. Most use a few cocktail shrimp from the deli rather than dose with ammonia, but either method works.

For a simple setup, everything you listed sounds good, but add about 40 pounds live rock, and pull the media from the wet-dry. Use the bigger tank--the larger volume is easier to keep stable (evaporation increases salinity, and can be lethal with small volumes). The higher lights (VHO, MH, PC) are primarily for corals, and while a few small ones may come in on live rock, certainly you don't need them to keep the tank healthy and the fish happy.

A skimmer would be a good idea--they really help keep the water clean, without much effort on you part. I'm all about lazy!

I would add the clown fish last of your list--they tend to be very aggressive, and will harrass other fish if added first.

 

[Ray Pollett]

I'll try to add to what Oriongirl said.

"I told him what I would want: a very simple setup...no corals, nothing but fish. Just to get the hang on SW first. In response, he told me all I'd need to do is add salt and fish. "

Quite an over simplification.

"He claimed I wouldn't need any special lighting if I didn't want it, "

True for a Fish Only tank.

"nor a skimmer,"

Some people swear by protein skimmers others do not use them. Both can have good tanks and both can have problems.

" or anything but a powerfilter and carry out water changes like I would in a FW tank. "

Works for me


"( Siphon out the Aragonite, but don't do water changes as often. )"

Bad statement in my opinion. If the argonite you are talking about is sand - you never clean it. If it is crushes coral that would depend on a number of things on how you would handle it.

Water changes are a hot topic of disagreement. Some people say they never do them; others do them every week. I do them every other week at 10-20%.

"So I went home, and pulled together some items from my inventory. Amazingly, I found some good stuff. Available on the list would be:

Either a 20 Gallon Extra high or a 30 Gallon oceanic tank. "

I would use the 30 gallon tank as Oniongirl suggest.

"Hagen Biolife internal wet/dry powerfilter & heater combo"

I do not know that filter. I use an Emperor 400 on a 29 gallon tank with the bio-wheels removed. It works great.

"Hygrometer"

Calibrate frequently with a refractometer or better yet buy a refractometer.

"& Salt,"

Salt can go bad if exposed to air and moisture very quickly from what I've been told

" Marine Flake"

Use a variety of foods. Just like humans; no one food gives you all the vitamins, minerals and nutrients we need. The same is true of fish.

"Crushed aragonite & Playsand"

If about a 90% playsand mix OK.

"Dead corals"

I personally hate dead corals. THey not only have to be cleaned about every other week to remain looking good; but do not give fish adequate security. Use Live Rock (LR). It gives them what they need to feel secure. Just like people; fish that do not feel secure get sick and die.

"All I'm interested in is cheap, simple fish. I want to get the fish my fiancee will want....that would be Percula clowns, Firefish, Royal Grammas, etc.

Could you give me some advice on the basic equipment needed, how often water changes occur, and some specie suggestions?"

Those three fish are usually fine together. Put the firefish and royal gramma in first then 3 weeks latter add the clownfish.

Ray

 

[Zeb]

Thanks for the replys!

So, I do have some more questions.

1. If I buy LR, do I need sand....or can I used the crushed aragonite still? ( Which is more like a fine gravel )
2. Do I need to mix the salt, and add LR the next day? Or can the LR be added into SW that has not cleared up yet?
3. About sand: Can you use black sand made for aquariums, or should I just buy reef sand?
4. Will LR require any special lighting?
5. What should basic water changes be like?
6. With LR, can a skimmer be added in a few weeks?

I really have a ton of questions, but I'm going slowly. Still reading!

Thanks for your info...especially about adding percula clowns last. I would have made a mistake already!

 

[OrionGirl]

Live sand is actually preferable to crushed coral for a couple of reasons. First, the sand creates layers where aerobic and anaerobic bacteria can thrive, breaking down ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Many critters live in the sand, keeping it from going annoxic, and helping break down solid wastes. With CC, these guys have a harder time, and the anaerobic bacteria can't develop in the average depths seen (some controversy here, but I can vouch that we had higher nitrates before switching to sand).

Depending on where and what kind of live rock you get, you may not want to add it until the tank has cycled. Uncured live rock can be used to cycle--there will be enough decaying critters to provide an ammonia spike. If you get cured live rock, you'll want to cycle before adding, so you don't lose any more stuff off the rosk to the cycling process.

When you first setup the tank, mixing the salt directly in the tank is fine, but for water changes you'll want to mix the water in a tub, and then add it in. Adding straight FW should only be done when topping off for evaporation, and even then you should only add small amounts where the water can mix well.

Not sure about the black sand--any idea about it's composition? I think it would be okay, but you'll want to know if it's inert, clean, small grained, etc.

Some things on live rock might not make it without higher lighting, but most of it will be fine. Coralline algae, many polyps and such will thrive, as will sponges, under NO lighting.

Lots of different ways to do water changes. On 180, we pull about 50 gallons out every other week. Water is mixed with salt and brought to temp in a separate container, then put into the sump. About every other day, 4-5 gallons of FW needs to be added to replace the water lost to evaporation (but this is in the dry West--if you live in a higher humidity area, and can cover more of the tank than we can, you shouldn't have quite as much).

Skimmer should wait until the cycling is done--can't put a time line on that, really.