African Malawi Cichlid PH

C

CL32

AC Members
Aug 10, 2010
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Yesterday I bought an acei and an electric yellow. They looked good in the shop, didn't look like they were going to die overnight, but they did :confused:.

I have no idea why they have died because I put them in a small 25L tank with a filter that's been running in my main tank for 3 months and cycled water (also from my main tank). I have had my main tank running for around 4 years now and have had no problems. Both tanks are running at 25 degrees C.

I called the shop I bought the fish from and they told me to bring in a water sample from the tank. I just got home from work and I had to get to the shop within 30 mins before it closed. I had no time to test the water myself beforehand, but I knew the water should be fine because my other fish is alive and well in the tank the water was from.

The guy at the shop tests the water and says everything is perfect except the PH which was at 7 (according to him). He then said the fish died of shock because of the drastic PH change. I asked what PH they keep their Malawi tanks at and he says 8.0-8.5. I then asked what we could do about it (refund, credit, exchange etc wise) and he said he can't do anything at the moment.

I go home and test the PH with my kit and it says 7.7. That's a bit higher than 7.0. I'm going to see someone else to get the ph tested to see what they get. If it's around 7.6-7.8 I know the shop I bought the fish from is lying.

My question:

Should a fish die within a few hours because of it going from 8.3 to 7.7 PH?

I have a friend who also bought an acei from the same store and put it in a tank with an Oscar and a few other different cichlids from all different regions. His tank sits at around a PH of 7.0.

:confused::confused::confused:
 
I have read that the maximum pH change permissible in one day is from 0.2 to 0.5; so in your case, apparently the change was of 0.6 (from 8.3 to 7.7) and in a time faster than one day I suppose. So, according to this rule, yes; your fishes could die because of this pH change. Sorry for their loss and...welcome to AC!
 
I've bought fish from there before and had no problems. Thanks for the little rule and welcome.
 
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Then, you don't think it was the pH change; right?
 
25L is too small a space for both of those cichlids, but doubtful that it would be a cause of overnight death.

You said the tank was filled with water from your main tank. What are the parameters of that water, including the nitrates, hardness, etc? When a fish shop tells you the water tested "perfect", it doesn't always mean 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 10 nitrate, and KH/GH & salt similar to that of the store's tank (my personal interpretation of "perfect" parameters in a situation like this). Often an LFS will only check the ammonia and maybe the nitrate, and doesn't bother checking the nitrate. Never accept the terms "perfect" "ok" "fine", etc. without asking for the actual results of their tests.

How old is your test kit? What kind of test did they use? Liquid? Strips? Not all tests are created equally. If they used an inaccurate testing method, they didn't knowingly lie to you, they gave you the results they were able to get with their testing method.

As far as the pH change goes, an instant pH change of 0.6 can potentially shock a fish to death, though I have personally never even had a problem with taking African cichlids from Petsmart's 7.0 water, and dropping them into my 8.2 conditioned Malawi tank with no more than temperature acclimation. However, I do know that one of the big box stores uses an overdose of baking soda in a small tank to quickly raise the pH and cause shock to euthanize their fish when necessary.

Speaking of, did you float the bag to equalize the temperature before putting the fish in? A quick temperature drop is a good source of shock as well.

Does the LFS use rift lake salt in their tanks (many that adjust the pH for Africans will also use salt)? Do you use salt? Just another variable to consider...

Considering they both died overnight, having survived initial shipping and having lived for a while at the LFS, it a whole lot more likely that something happened in your tank that caused the deaths as opposed to the LFS's, and I would suspect a large difference in some water parameter to be the culprit.
 
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pH shock is a myth...planted tanks can see a huge drop over the course of the day with the addition of CO2...however a large enough TDS change which oftentimes is accompanied by a pH swing is a definite killer.
 
Stress from the move, super small tank, different water perimeters can be detrimental to a fishes health. Sorry for the loss but a rule of mine is that i try to put a new arrival in a bigger setup than where it came from..
 
oo7genie said:
25L is too small a space for both of those cichlids, but doubtful that it would be a cause of overnight death.

You said the tank was filled with water from your main tank. What are the parameters of that water, including the nitrates, hardness, etc? When a fish shop tells you the water tested "perfect", it doesn't always mean 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 10 nitrate, and KH/GH & salt similar to that of the store's tank (my personal interpretation of "perfect" parameters in a situation like this). Often an LFS will only check the ammonia and maybe the nitrate, and doesn't bother checking the nitrate. Never accept the terms "perfect" "ok" "fine", etc. without asking for the actual results of their tests.

How old is your test kit? What kind of test did they use? Liquid? Strips? Not all tests are created equally. If they used an inaccurate testing method, they didn't knowingly lie to you, they gave you the results they were able to get with their testing method.

As far as the pH change goes, an instant pH change of 0.6 can potentially shock a fish to death, though I have personally never even had a problem with taking African cichlids from Petsmart's 7.0 water, and dropping them into my 8.2 conditioned Malawi tank with no more than temperature acclimation. However, I do know that one of the big box stores uses an overdose of baking soda in a small tank to quickly raise the pH and cause shock to euthanize their fish when necessary.

Speaking of, did you float the bag to equalize the temperature before putting the fish in? A quick temperature drop is a good source of shock as well.

Does the LFS use rift lake salt in their tanks (many that adjust the pH for Africans will also use salt)? Do you use salt? Just another variable to consider...

Considering they both died overnight, having survived initial shipping and having lived for a while at the LFS, it a whole lot more likely that something happened in your tank that caused the deaths as opposed to the LFS's, and I would suspect a large difference in some water parameter to be the culprit.
Click to expand...

The fish are really small (1 inch) and were only going to stay in the tank for a week.

I'm not sure what they tested but I know they tested ammonia as well. A worker asked me questions while water the water was being tested so I'm not sure what he actually tested and what results he got. I just got told it was, "all perfect except ph!"

My kit is a few months old and the shop used a liquid test kit.

I've also never had a problem with ph changes. I have bought electric yellows from the same place before and put them into this same water without any harm.

I did float the bag for around 15 minutes.

I'm going to guess the shop uses rift lake salt, as do I.

I'll probably never find out how they died but next time I go out to buy fish I'll be wanting my water pretty much the same as the store's water so I don't have a repeat of this.
 
This tank was temporary and not that much smaller than the store tank. It has to be something to do with the water no doubt. I'll never know the problem though. I would love a bigger hospital/quarantine tank but don't have the space or money :)
 
I don't think it was the pH change alone. Had to be a combination of very small things making the water seem much different.
 
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