Africans dropping like flies...
- Thread starter CajunCC
- Start date
Well, unlike a lot of you I've moved away from the ol bucket method. I have a set up I made from vinyl tubing and faucet adaptors bought at Home depot. Draining takes 3-4 minutes, 1min of that I am involved with sucking stuff up off the bottom, this is a bare bottom tank mind you. Then I secure the hose and let it finish dropping the water level down to 50%, while I wipe the glass down. After that, clear the hose add dechlorinator, take the end with the thread adaptor on it to the sink, screw it on the hose adaptor on the sink, secure the other end into the tank, then start filling. Water pressure is good out of the faucet, if I wanted go I can fill the tank in about 2 mins, but I like to go a bit slower, so it takes 5-6mins to fill it right back up while its doing that I clean the pads off in a bucket of water from the tank then put them back. Then I'm all done. So don't beleive me if ya want, but I do it every day on 6 tanks, so trust me I know how to get it down right and quick. Its really not that hard. Multi-tasking really helps too ya know.
Real adult response to btw Kirbs, but hey givin out wrong info isn't something I can let slide.
Real adult response to btw Kirbs, but hey givin out wrong info isn't something I can let slide.
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I don't think there is any downside to more frequent water changes, assuming similar water parameters. The more water changed, the better the conditions for the fish. Seems like good husbandry, to me.
Jim
Jim
NatakuTseng, its ok. I've just gotten used to the fact that you like to argue every point made. You just take things too seriously... i dont want to bother going on and on like you do. Ive seen sudden temperature and pH changes shock fish. Lack of oxygen is gonna make them gasp no matter where they are laying in the tank. But like i said early on in the thread, it was most likely something that got into the tank during the water change or beforehand, some sort of chemical. About that, there is nothing much you can do other than add carbon or do large water changes.
And about those water changes, you can do as much as you like, but im saying its not nessecary. And it is certianly not nessecary to make africans breed, as they've bred for me in tanks i havent cleaned for weeks. And the only way i could imagine more frequent cleanings making your fish grow larger is that you can feed them more because you are removing the excess waste out with water changes and cleanings. More food=fish grow faster. As long as the nitrates are low in your tank then doing a water change isnt going to do much. Look at planted tanks, they never need water changes because of the balance in the tank. Establish a balance in yours, and you'll be fine. Just always monitor your levels.
There is no right or wrong way to fishkeeping. As long as it works then keep it up. Everyone has thier opinions and i respect them. But i dont respect people who trash other's opinion because they are differenet than thier own.
-Diana
And about those water changes, you can do as much as you like, but im saying its not nessecary. And it is certianly not nessecary to make africans breed, as they've bred for me in tanks i havent cleaned for weeks. And the only way i could imagine more frequent cleanings making your fish grow larger is that you can feed them more because you are removing the excess waste out with water changes and cleanings. More food=fish grow faster. As long as the nitrates are low in your tank then doing a water change isnt going to do much. Look at planted tanks, they never need water changes because of the balance in the tank. Establish a balance in yours, and you'll be fine. Just always monitor your levels.
There is no right or wrong way to fishkeeping. As long as it works then keep it up. Everyone has thier opinions and i respect them. But i dont respect people who trash other's opinion because they are differenet than thier own.
-Diana
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Ok. Sounds like nice setup. I too use vinyl tubing and faucet adaptors. Never has worked that great or fast for me. Set up is a python. I do tend to do more water changes since i've been using the python. Sometimes weekly. Daily water changes seems like vaccuuming the same 10 by 10 foot spot 4 times a day every day. It never gets any better, but psychologically seems cleaner. Great for a obessive-compulsive. No response required.
The problem is your opinion is not based on fact. Water changes are nessecary on ANY tank. Nitrates are not the only thing that builds up in the water. There are also a ton of hormones the fish release, one of which is a growth inhibiting hormone. You do more water changes that has almost not concentration in the water and doesn't effect the growth of the fish at all, that is why they grow larger and faster. I can feed fish in tanks that get WCs every day and ones in tanks that get them once a week the same amount of food, and the ones in the tank with the cleaner water will always grow faster. Africans aren't a species either by the way, its amazing how most of you malawi people can't distinguish between Malawi, Tanganyika, Victoria, West Africans and so on. Just because Discus are from south americans I don't call them South american cichlids, but thats another point about uneducated fish keepers. Your malawis are not hard fish to get to spawn, most malawis and their difficulty to spawn is almost as easy as convicts and jewels. Thats one of the reasons why you can get them for a couple dollars at your LFS. I have seen pH shock, and low O2 levels in tanks as well quite a few times, and EVERY time, and everyone I know that has had to deal with it, the fish go to the surface and gasp. Why do they do that, because they can attain a small amount of O2 from the air, they will not go to the bottom and gasp if there is a low O2 level, or pH flucuation in the tank.
Never need waterchanges in a planted tank huh? How sadly mistaken you are. First those hormones, still build up in planted tanks. Plants also utilize the minerals and other such things in the water and will exhaust that source. Water changes are in some ways more of a nessecity in planted tanks, because you need to keep the plants healthy as well. Fish don't sit in the same water for weeks on end in the wild, the water is turned over generally in a rather rapid pace, so frequent WCs in a tank are much better then infrequent ones.
I argue your points more often than others, and many other people's because what info you spew out there to people isn't generally correct information. There is a right and wrong way to keeping fish, by all rights what your saying is just because someone has managed to keep a goldfish in a 1gallon bowl and its doing ok, then I guess thats not keeping it the wrong way, kinda like its ok to keep a 10" oscar in a 10gal because he's been doing ok for a while. For as long as many people on here have been keeping fish, its really amazing how little some of you know about the basics of keeping them. I speak from expirience and the extensive knowledge I have about keeping freshwater fish. You can keep them for a long time, but that doesn't mean they are healthy or that they will live to their full life span.
But Hey, I'm just a rude, arrogant and most likely unknowledgable guy, so don't pay any attention to the information I give out.
Never need waterchanges in a planted tank huh? How sadly mistaken you are. First those hormones, still build up in planted tanks. Plants also utilize the minerals and other such things in the water and will exhaust that source. Water changes are in some ways more of a nessecity in planted tanks, because you need to keep the plants healthy as well. Fish don't sit in the same water for weeks on end in the wild, the water is turned over generally in a rather rapid pace, so frequent WCs in a tank are much better then infrequent ones.
I argue your points more often than others, and many other people's because what info you spew out there to people isn't generally correct information. There is a right and wrong way to keeping fish, by all rights what your saying is just because someone has managed to keep a goldfish in a 1gallon bowl and its doing ok, then I guess thats not keeping it the wrong way, kinda like its ok to keep a 10" oscar in a 10gal because he's been doing ok for a while. For as long as many people on here have been keeping fish, its really amazing how little some of you know about the basics of keeping them. I speak from expirience and the extensive knowledge I have about keeping freshwater fish. You can keep them for a long time, but that doesn't mean they are healthy or that they will live to their full life span.
But Hey, I'm just a rude, arrogant and most likely unknowledgable guy, so don't pay any attention to the information I give out.
Not required but I will, lol. My tanks that I do daily's on are also bare bottom. So I don't have to do much for vaccuming, its just sucking the stuff that has settled on the bottom up, which takes no time at all.
Well, I've dropped water changes for the african tank back to weekly for now. They still seem just as happy and ridiculously active as ever, so I guess they're alright. Nitrates stay below about 20-30 all week. I'm just so used to doing 50% every other day in my South American tank (discus/angels/siver dollars) because I keep it slightly overstocked and they all seem to appreciate the crystal-clean water. When I was doing weekly changes, they'd get a little sluggish toward the end of the week and then perk up after the water change.
Not necessarily, unless you can confirm you have absolutely stable water parameters from your supply?JSchmidt said:
Temps change, especially time-of-day, cause most supply pipes are exposed to sunlight.
Sorry I have to side with ~*LuvMyKribs*~ on this, as significant temps changes will stress fish.
Ever had someone service the pipes?
The first several minutes of running the water spits out all kinds of gross things - since you've basically multiplied your chances of this happening by 2, 3, 4 or more by going every other day!
Or are we talking about RO water of heavily filter stuff?
Sorry, I'm assuming too many things cause most of the tap stuff down here in Hawaii is pretty pristine.
I still think testing water parameters and watching your fish for signs of abnormal behavior should dictate what your water change schedule...
Of course, I'm assuming fairly stable water parameters from the supply (didn't I mention that in the earlier post?). How much does your water change in terms of pH, KH, and GH out of the tap from day to day? Mine is pretty stable...
Water temp is pretty easy to control, too... and I think the risk to fish from 'temperature shock' is pretty much exaggerated, or at least too broadly applied. Many fish come from waters with thermal layers that can vary by ten degrees or more, and fish have been observed swimming from one themocline into another in the wild without ill effects. Furthermore, in some areas, the influx of rainwaters of different temperatures can encourage spawning. Some fish can be sensitive to temps, but most of us who keep those species know about that.
I suppose if someone worked on the plumbing you'd have crud in the water, but how often does that occur? We usually know when that's happened, and we just run the water for a while before we drink it, bathe in it, wash clothes in it, etc. I think this point is a red herring.
My thinking is that the waters from which our fish come are vastly less polluted, in terms of nitrates, dissolved organic compounds, hormones, etc., than are our best-kept fish tanks. Frequent water changes may not be absolutely necessary, in that the fish may appear (and be) quite healthy. But it seems reasonable to me that more frequent changes will be better for the fish, in that their water will be less polluted.
I know from hanging out here that Diana/LuvMyKribs knows what she's doing and I have no doubt she changes enough water, etc, to keep her fish healthy. My point is that there is no harm, only benefit, in frequent water changes (given a stable water supply).
Jim
Water temp is pretty easy to control, too... and I think the risk to fish from 'temperature shock' is pretty much exaggerated, or at least too broadly applied. Many fish come from waters with thermal layers that can vary by ten degrees or more, and fish have been observed swimming from one themocline into another in the wild without ill effects. Furthermore, in some areas, the influx of rainwaters of different temperatures can encourage spawning. Some fish can be sensitive to temps, but most of us who keep those species know about that.
I suppose if someone worked on the plumbing you'd have crud in the water, but how often does that occur? We usually know when that's happened, and we just run the water for a while before we drink it, bathe in it, wash clothes in it, etc. I think this point is a red herring.
My thinking is that the waters from which our fish come are vastly less polluted, in terms of nitrates, dissolved organic compounds, hormones, etc., than are our best-kept fish tanks. Frequent water changes may not be absolutely necessary, in that the fish may appear (and be) quite healthy. But it seems reasonable to me that more frequent changes will be better for the fish, in that their water will be less polluted.
I know from hanging out here that Diana/LuvMyKribs knows what she's doing and I have no doubt she changes enough water, etc, to keep her fish healthy. My point is that there is no harm, only benefit, in frequent water changes (given a stable water supply).
Jim
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