good point on the egyptian part dude. i saw some pics of what u described; the mayans showed the same thingh on their stone temple remains. cool stuff.
Aliens, Atmosphere, or Airplane?
- Thread starter 125gJoe
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good point on the egyptian part dude. i saw some pics of what u described; the mayans showed the same thingh on their stone temple remains. cool stuff.
Que-the point of the fermi paradox is simply that if there wa sa civilation 100 times more advance then us they would leave some type of evidence, well where is it? where are the foot prints, the radio waves, some type of signal left in the sky. Space should be full of life, but there hasn't been any distinguishable sign yet.
Earth by universe standards is young, mankind is even younger, on large timescale i say we're doin pretty well with advancement, and if the dark ages didnt occur we would prob be even further then where we are now. my point is if a civilization was out and had a good head start then they should be far ahead of us. This should go for any civilization who started before mankind. With all the oppurtunity out there for life i ask again...where is it? is every being in the universe shy? why are they cowering from earth?
Options are:
IMO
Earth by universe standards is young, mankind is even younger, on large timescale i say we're doin pretty well with advancement, and if the dark ages didnt occur we would prob be even further then where we are now. my point is if a civilization was out and had a good head start then they should be far ahead of us. This should go for any civilization who started before mankind. With all the oppurtunity out there for life i ask again...where is it? is every being in the universe shy? why are they cowering from earth?
Options are:
- we are alone
- We're ahead of everybody
- There is life, but not intelligent life.
- We're so unevolved that other beings avoid us
- Those being are beyond our sight and technology...microscopic universe, different dimension and so on.
IMO
Or these sightings could actually be us (mankind) from the future traveling back in time to revisit important events in our history. They may be time traveling spacecraft or unmanned probes. Who knows.
OHHHH good point slappy. Do you read Steven Baxter? sounds like his book Coalesent(im sure i spelled it wrong srry)
Que
I wish I was a fish I wish.
What if they have, but in the Andromeda galaxy? We wouldn't be able to see that would we? Why should they leave evidence? You want them to leave evidence and since they haven't yet then your default is that they don't exist?
Life on other planets could evolve like ours from the earliest basic stuff of life to how we are right now, many times over, before the light from that planet ever reaches us.
Just because we have no evidence we can percieve doesn't mean it's not out there. We just might not be able to see it yet or at all.
Maybe.
To our senses.
Who knows if space travel is something other life forms are able to do or even want to do? Just because we have a piece of us that wants to colonize other lands and if possible other worlds doesn't mean that aliens, if they exist, want to do the same.
Q
with intelligence comes curiosity, with curiosity comes advancment.
space travel is necessary to anylife form on a planet. resources run out, population boom so u hav less room, disasters happen, things get old(suns). If you don't plan to leave the planet you eventually die. You have to think big and long term. if it's this crowded on earth, and we're havin these type of global problems, i think it's safe to assume, that whats we experiance others do as well, like i stated in the previous post, you have to go on what you know. We know earth and the situations that present themselves to us.
On the matter of evidence it sounds like you're assuming that beside mankind is only one other race in the universe and that is started about the same time man did. if there is another race in another galaxey what the heck hav they been doing? their prob a younger race who has yet to reach the level mankind is at. and if there is this 2nd being why not a 3rd, or a 4th or more. What makes mankind and this 2nd being so special that in this vast universe they are the only ones to exist. Thats essientially is the meat and potatoes of the fermi paradox. Before homo sapien there were other type of early humans. we branched out, took advantage of every possbility on earth. Why isn't this occuring all over the universe? is there a rule that only 1 life form per galaexy can exist at a certain period in time? my point is that life is unique, not something that catches hold everyday.
In the end resources are not infinate, planets are not infinate, the universe, although bigger then anything any of us can imagine, is not infinate. Man kind could be the first, or the last of intelligent life in the universe, cause it certainly is a rarity these days.
space travel is necessary to anylife form on a planet. resources run out, population boom so u hav less room, disasters happen, things get old(suns). If you don't plan to leave the planet you eventually die. You have to think big and long term. if it's this crowded on earth, and we're havin these type of global problems, i think it's safe to assume, that whats we experiance others do as well, like i stated in the previous post, you have to go on what you know. We know earth and the situations that present themselves to us.
On the matter of evidence it sounds like you're assuming that beside mankind is only one other race in the universe and that is started about the same time man did. if there is another race in another galaxey what the heck hav they been doing? their prob a younger race who has yet to reach the level mankind is at. and if there is this 2nd being why not a 3rd, or a 4th or more. What makes mankind and this 2nd being so special that in this vast universe they are the only ones to exist. Thats essientially is the meat and potatoes of the fermi paradox. Before homo sapien there were other type of early humans. we branched out, took advantage of every possbility on earth. Why isn't this occuring all over the universe? is there a rule that only 1 life form per galaexy can exist at a certain period in time? my point is that life is unique, not something that catches hold everyday.
In the end resources are not infinate, planets are not infinate, the universe, although bigger then anything any of us can imagine, is not infinate. Man kind could be the first, or the last of intelligent life in the universe, cause it certainly is a rarity these days.
Que
I wish I was a fish I wish.
Only if it has the ability and desire to do so. Even then you need resources to pull it off. If we don't make it to the stars does that mean we don't exist to another intelligent life form?
That's assuming life is similar to ours and that population and resource use is uncontrolled and not renewable.
As long as you go only with what you know you limit the possibilities and close your mind to what could be.
The number of other races could be one or billions for all we know and I don't assume any timeframe for when any of them started nor the number of them.
Living like we have been maybe. It doesn't matter. Maybe that's what they're thinking about us.
I haven't limited the number of possible intelligent life forms that are out there. If only half of the galaxies out there have one intelligent life form then there are billions of intelligent life forms waiting to be discovered.
Why should it? Maybe it is. Again you limit your thinking mostly to what you know. There is no rule that says this has to be happening all over the universe.
Not at all. There could be hundreds, thousands or millions in our galaxy alone. Just because we are so limited in our abilities to see them or evidence of them doesn't mean they aren't there.
I'll agree here by saying it may be rare but I leave my mind open to the possibility it just might not be unique and may be catching on every day.
After all there are billions and billions of planets where this could be happening.
As far as we know and we know oh so little.
Q
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well think about this.
As you approach infiniti the probility of an event approaches 0. At the same time as you approach infiniti the universe itself approaches 0.
simply put that given enough time anything can happen, but in the same instance those events just don't have enough time to get started. Life could be snuffed out by a dying planet, dying sun, falling rocks, radiation, unstable planet, super novas, black holes, or anything else(all these are refered to as hostiles of space)
Scientist believe our galaxy is atleaset 5 billion yrs old,
the age of the earth roughly 4.5 billion yrs,
the oldest hominids fossils are 6-7million yrs old
oldest Homo sapien Fossils at 195,000
our sun is about 4.5 billion old
The assumed universe is 13.7 billion yrs old
life took hold on earth as soon as it cooled. From there life shaped itself through natural selection, enviromental events, and luck. by earth time it took intelligence some time to even show itself on the planet, and by intelligence i mean consciousness. On a universal scale intelligence appeared pretty quickly.
So with the assumed universe being almost twice as old as earth, you think life would have plenty of time to develope on any of the 8 planets in our galaxy. with 8 planets there was different possibilities for life to develope. Well we got 1/8 right...so what happend to the other 7?
Mars should have life, it's very similar to earth in make up, distance from the sun, and raw materials. Well Mars ran out of time, that what most believe what happend. The universe is a very dangerous place, and as earth born we are priviliged to be so well protected in our galaxy from the hostiles of space. The protection that our galaxy provides us alouds life to take hold develope and hopefully one day move out of our own galaxy. Who knows its a race against time, if we aren't able to think long term and move off earth we are just sitting ducks waiting for oblivion.
Quick Summary for those who just skimmed:
The universe is old, old enough to hav life develope, and we know this because man exists. If assumed that there is an inifinate universe, then there is inifinte time. With inifinte time comes inifinte possibilities. The problem is that with each chance for life to exists there is an equal chance for it to be destroyed before it developes. Earth is lucky, our sun is young, our solar system provides enough protection form the hostiles of space, earth is balanced. As time goes on, and we aren't quick enough in development to help ourselves,we may become another victim of the universe, or we may just blow ourself up.
This is all assumed if the universe is always changing and growing, in a static universe the possibility of life decrease, becasue you have to factor in a finite univerese with a finite number of worlds.
***Age of the universe, earth, mankind, and anything taken as a fact was from my own knowledge and confirmed by http://www.wikipedia.org/****
As you approach infiniti the probility of an event approaches 0. At the same time as you approach infiniti the universe itself approaches 0.
simply put that given enough time anything can happen, but in the same instance those events just don't have enough time to get started. Life could be snuffed out by a dying planet, dying sun, falling rocks, radiation, unstable planet, super novas, black holes, or anything else(all these are refered to as hostiles of space)
Scientist believe our galaxy is atleaset 5 billion yrs old,
the age of the earth roughly 4.5 billion yrs,
the oldest hominids fossils are 6-7million yrs old
oldest Homo sapien Fossils at 195,000
our sun is about 4.5 billion old
The assumed universe is 13.7 billion yrs old
life took hold on earth as soon as it cooled. From there life shaped itself through natural selection, enviromental events, and luck. by earth time it took intelligence some time to even show itself on the planet, and by intelligence i mean consciousness. On a universal scale intelligence appeared pretty quickly.
So with the assumed universe being almost twice as old as earth, you think life would have plenty of time to develope on any of the 8 planets in our galaxy. with 8 planets there was different possibilities for life to develope. Well we got 1/8 right...so what happend to the other 7?
Mars should have life, it's very similar to earth in make up, distance from the sun, and raw materials. Well Mars ran out of time, that what most believe what happend. The universe is a very dangerous place, and as earth born we are priviliged to be so well protected in our galaxy from the hostiles of space. The protection that our galaxy provides us alouds life to take hold develope and hopefully one day move out of our own galaxy. Who knows its a race against time, if we aren't able to think long term and move off earth we are just sitting ducks waiting for oblivion.
Quick Summary for those who just skimmed:
The universe is old, old enough to hav life develope, and we know this because man exists. If assumed that there is an inifinate universe, then there is inifinte time. With inifinte time comes inifinte possibilities. The problem is that with each chance for life to exists there is an equal chance for it to be destroyed before it developes. Earth is lucky, our sun is young, our solar system provides enough protection form the hostiles of space, earth is balanced. As time goes on, and we aren't quick enough in development to help ourselves,we may become another victim of the universe, or we may just blow ourself up.
This is all assumed if the universe is always changing and growing, in a static universe the possibility of life decrease, becasue you have to factor in a finite univerese with a finite number of worlds.
***Age of the universe, earth, mankind, and anything taken as a fact was from my own knowledge and confirmed by http://www.wikipedia.org/****
Que
I wish I was a fish I wish.
We have only taken a close look at 2 planets other than earth and one moon, ours. Venus has conditions on the surface which are inhospitable to life as we know it but we haven't been looking hard for life there. The moons surface is of course also inhospitable to life as we know it. Mars also seems to be the same way. We really have only just begun to examine these places.
As for the rest of the planets... well... looking at them from space will not really let us know if there is life on them or in them. We gotta go down there. Of course WE ourselves cannot go to many of the planets surfaces or we'll perish so we'll have to use remote sensing equipment like the mars rovers.
Some have conditions inhospitable to life as we know it so they'll be way down on the list as far as the search for life goes.
You forgot to mention the many moons of Jupiter and Saturn that are prime contenders for supporting life.
And it just might. We need to keep looking. Just because we haven't found any yet doesn't mean it isn't there.
The real bottom line here is that we are the possibility of life in the universe and we are real. If it can happen at all,and it has, then it can happen again. From the inside looking out it seems life is only on this planet. If you eliminate the probability of life being anywhere else than you may as well deny your own existence.
Q
