all my angels are having issues :(

[mistermog]

Hi guys, long story short.

Got 8 baby angels, in the tank for a week no problems.

Got a black ghost knife in the tank on last Friday. Nothing of interest, knife is hiding 24/7.

Fast forward to today, Wednesday. All 8 of my angels suddenly showed up with shredded tail fins, missing parts of the finds, and a couple have split top fins. They are swimming very jerkily and not swimming around as much, staying to one part of the tank, by the castle on the bottom. Eating fine though. (the knife is hard to get to eat, i never seen him eat anything yet... kinda wondering what to do about that but thats a seperate issue... i put brine shrimp cubes in his hiding spot and see him nose them, maybe he is eating and i just dont know it.) They are also doing this rapid vibrating shimmy thing that kinda reminds me of a dog shaking off water from their tail fins.

Water params are 0/0/5ish, 80 degrees, Ph after change is 7.8 (tap is 7.8).

I just did a 25% water change (did a 15ish% WC on last sunday), dosed with prime both times.

No white spots on any fish. I did see the Ph dip down to 6.8 a couple days ago, so i doubled the crushed coral and added a little baking soda on Monday between these water changes.

Could it have been the rapid Ph change made all this happen? What else could this be? What should I do?

I havent seen long stringy poo but i did see solid poo out of one of them, grayish white colored, but it didnt get more than 2-3mm or so before it dropped.

 

[mistermog]

it looks like their top fin is closed too.

also, it looks like occasionally an angel would swim up to another one and tilt sideways and let another nibble on its side.

this is really bothering me, i dont know whats going on. almost 2 weeks they were fine and now boom ALL of them are having issues. i bet it has something to do with introducing the BGK, but i dont know what it is.

id put pictures up here but they all turn up as blurry blobs

need someone with more experience

 

[Star_Rider]

shredded fins are usually a sign of aggression.

you have quite a few angels. what size is the tank? can you move the BGK?

what is your water change schedule? how much and how often.

you indicated drop in pH. have you tested the kh/gh of the water?

I find water in fla typically a bit on the hard side.

the fact the angels were fine until you added the BGK may indicate the BGK is the issue. but again 8 angels in the same tank.. keep an eye on them.

how young are they? what size body?

 

[mistermog]

There are 7 quarter sized and 1 nickel sized angels. They have doubled since I got them and were showing a little bit of fin nipping before the knife but nothing major.

The tank is 120 gallon, 60"x18'x24". I change 15-20% water weekly. I have not tested the hardness, but when I was doing the fishless cycle, I had a PH drop and added crushed coral to stabilize it (it was in the tank for 3 weeks prior to adding the fish, and PH was solid)

The striped one looks now to have a crusty white scab on his side, no scrapes or anything just the cover. It doesnt look fuzzy, and the temp is between 80-81 and I am adding a little salt at change time, nothing major maybe a couple tablespoons. I know it might not be good for the knife, so i dont add a lot.

I wish i could get pictures, but these things move too fast for my camera.

this is myonly tank, so i cant move the knife. Im thinking it might have had some disease that might not have visible signs, until the one angel showed up with a dull dusty looking side. (his other side looks normal, with good color)

 

[Star_Rider]

tank size is fine. angels are angels and being the sweet Cichlid they are
could be aggression.

this dusty looking side... does it appear like the slime coat could be sluffing?

the angels could be showing signs of establishing the pecking order.

 

[mistermog]

i cant tell... would taking him out and feeling it tell me anything?

here is the best picture i can get.

they went through the pecking order week 1, wuold they do it again after adding the knife?

 

[Draal5]

I am confused how long have you had them? To double in size normally take months.

from what I can see which is not much in that picture. looks ok

To answer your question yes the pecking order could change when you add anything new to the tank. It could change when one grows and the others don't.

The most important thing is are they eating ok ?

step up your water changes 20% 2 a week at least will help repair the fin damage and may help with the dusty look on the one.

a Better pic. would help. Try setting you camera an a table or rest it or the back of a chair and just wait you should be able to get a better pic it some times takes a lot of patients and time

good luck

 

[mistermog]

haha thats the best picture i could take. I am setting it on the table and trying to get one, however the fish NEVER stay still and I cant change the shutter speed (its not an SLR)

In the pic you can kind of see on the stripes where it looks grayish, I realize the picture is horrible though but best I can do unless I take it out of the tank and hit it with a shoe. That wont accomplish anything productive.

And yes, everyone but the knife goes nuts for food: frozen brine shrimpies, freeze dried bloodworms, cichlid pellets and sinking carnivore pellets.

 

[Star_Rider]

difficult to tell from the picture.
can you keep an eye on the tangles and watch their behavior from a distance?

as Draal has mentioned changes to the tank can change the dynamics of the tank. the fish may re-establish their pecking order.
my concern tho.. are they beginning to make pair bonds.

any lip locking going on? and shimmers? false charges?

 

[mistermog]

No lip locking, what are shimmers and charges?

They are moving really jerkily, but nothing that would look like charging as far as I know. Last night when I was turning the lights off, I did see the dime sizer go and munch on the dangly things on the bottom (tendrils?) of one of the other angels.

After putting a little more salt in, it LOOKED like they calmed down a little bit and started to just cruise around the tank like they used to. I ordered GH and KH kit and it should be here mid next week sometime, in the mean time this weekend I might open up the Eheim and put all the crushed coral back into bottom of it. Right now I just have 2 little filter bags full sitting on the bottom, i have about 1 more bag worth that I took out, might need it back for the amount of water thats in the tank.

I still dont know what the crust looking stuff on the one's side is, but he still keeps letting people nibble him, like he wants them to clean it off. Bacterial maybe? Ill do another 25% or more water change on sunday.

How much prime should I use? I've been doing 4-5 caps when I do a water change, because it said based on total volume, and I double it becuase I have a lot of chloramine in the tap water.