(almost) newbie makes classic mistake - help!

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Hi all, first post. Only found this forum a few days ago, UNFORTUNATELY!

I've been reading a lot of the postings and the advice is great.

Anyway, onto the mistake, this is a bit of a War and Peace job I'm afraid so if you get bored feel free to do something else...

I used to have a coldwater 15.5 imperial gallon (18 US gallon) tank with four goldfish in it. I had kept them for several years with moderate success (looking back it was a miracle they survived at all :) ).

I had a disaster with the UGF which was powered by an air pump. But that's another story.

In my naivety I emptied the whole aquarium out, cleaned all the gravel (but only in running tap water), cleaned out the UGF, rinsed out the tank and then put the whole lot back in, filled it up with water and left it for a week (too busy!). Following this I did a little reading into what I was going to do next.

I decided to buy a heater and turn it into a tropical set-up (current space limitations meant I had to stick with the same sized tank). I also bought a powerhead for the UGF and various testing kits, + bottles of 'stuff'. I decided at this point that I was going to put Puffers in the tank (don't shoot me please - I fell in love with them :o ). I looked into puffers a bit and discovered that they weren't the easiest of fish to keep, but thought that my previous experiences with the cold water tank would stand me in good stead. ho ho.

At the time I didn't really understand anything about 'cycling' (not that I do now). I read a little on the internet about cycling the tank and with this in mind went back to the lfs to ask them for an opinion. Their (and I asked two of them seperately because I didn't believe the first one!) opinion was that it would be fine to introduce puffers into the tank as I had it set up. I think you can guess what came next.

Right onto my problemS!

I now have two Figure of Eight Puffers in the tank (18 us gallon). They are both about 3/4", and have been in there for approx 48 hours. They have both been a bit timid and weren't eating (more on that later), but are starting to move around the tank more. I was feeding them on frozen (but defrosted!) krill and mussels but they weren't eating so I bought a bag of live brine shrimp and they promptly eat the lot.

I have a few assorted plants (which to be honest are not even planted in the gravel yet, but are in their pots).

For filtration I am using an internal fluval with charcoal in it, and a UGF with a powerhead attached, which also provides aeration.

I had the temperature at 77f (which is what the information I found said they needed ), but the lfs said that was too low and that they keep them at 80+. I compromised on 79 for now.

I started testing the water yesterday (I know), results are:

tuesday:

ph = 6
amonia = 0ppm
nitrite < 0.25ppm
nitrate = 0ppm

here I noticed the low ph and have been adding ph up since (slowly).

wednesday
ph = 6.2
amonia = trace
nitrite = 0.25ppm
nitrate = 0ppm

The local water has a ph of 7.5 straight out of the tap (faucet!).

I have added aquarium salt at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons (6 us gallons).

I also used a product recomended by the lfs (i'm slowly learning about that!) called Easylife which is a 'fluid filter media'. It makes great claims - we shall see.

Whilst transporting and introducing the fish I was careful to follow advice. I put a little stress coat in the bag etc.

I have since done two 15% water changes with conditioned water.

Only now am I begginning to realise the error of my ways, and I guess its not going to be pleasant for them, but my immediate problems are:

1) Why is the ph so low and do I need to start doing gh / kh testing whilst introducing crushed coral?

2) Should I remove the carbon from the filter? If so will this cause an amonia spike and harm the fish?

3) Should I just take the plants out - they clearly won't grow and I'm worried they will rot and cause problems?

4) Anyone heard of Easylife (or Fluid Filter Media for that matter)?

5) Why do I have nitrites and are they at a damaging level yet? (another reason I haven't removed the carbon yet is the nitrites)

6) Should I keep changing water daily (I condition the water with Easylife, tap water conditioner and replace removed salt)?

7) Are live brine shrimp a good idea and if not what else can I get them to eat (they weren't taking fozen food)?

8) Any opinions on the temperature - they seem a bit happier now it is higher?

9) Have I got any chance at all of keeping them alive through this?

I am currently able to devote a lot of time to this project and would truly be grateful for any suggestions / comments / thoughts that can be offered by the pooled wisdom of this forum!

Thanks in advance...
 
1) Why is the ph so low and do I need to start doing gh / kh testing whilst introducing crushed coral?
pH may be low for a number of reasons--usually, low hardness is the culprit, and may be the result of things in the tank (deocrations/wood), or biological process. If you change from aquarium salt to a marine mix (which will actually create brackish conditions, rather than salted water), it will add buffers and help raise the pH. Without knowing what your hardness is, no way to know if crushed coral will help or not.

2) Should I remove the carbon from the filter? If so will this cause an amonia spike and harm the fish?
Carbon won't remove ammonia, so pulling it won't cause an ammonia spike unless all of your bacteria are currently residing on the carbon. If the carbon has been running for more than about 5 days in there, it's not doing any chemical filtration right now anyway.

3) Should I just take the plants out - they clearly won't grow and I'm worried they will rot and cause problems?
I would remove the plants, and replace them with something able to tolerate the salinity--anubias are good candidates, and are low light plants. I am a big believer of plants in tanks--I think they help maintain a stable environment, cleaner water, and happier fish.

4) Anyone heard of Easylife (or Fluid Filter Media for that matter)?
Nope, I haven't heard of it. Have you looked for anything online? Many 'miracle' products are snake oil, but more valid ones are emerging.

5) Why do I have nitrites and are they at a damaging level yet? (another reason I haven't removed the carbon yet is the nitrites) Speculation here, but the plants, and some bacteria in the tank are functioning to remove the ammonia, since right now it's probably really low. The small bacteria population is producing nitrites. Alternatively, one of the chemical additives is putting nitrites in. Any nitrites are bad. The salt additions you've made should help reduce their toxicity a bit, but it wouldn't hurt to do a bigger water change as well.

6) Should I keep changing water daily (I condition the water with Easylife, tap water conditioner and replace removed salt)? Yes. Puffers tend to be sensitive critters. Water changes will help prevent deaths.

7) Are live brine shrimp a good idea and if not what else can I get them to eat (they weren't taking fozen food)?
Live brine are fine for small puffers, but you'll need a larger food source eventually. Getting them to take prepared frozen foods (krill, scallops, mussels, ect) will help you--much easier than maintaining live brine. Puffers have beaks in those cute pursed mouths, and need to have something crunchy, with a hard shell, to keep it trimmed. Without this, it can overgrow and prevent them from being able to eat. Live snails are great for this, as are mussels, clams, ghost shrimp, etc.

8) Any opinions on the temperature - they seem a bit happier now it is higher?
Temp looks good to me. I keep my tanks around 78-79, and don't have problems. Some species need higher temps, but stability is always key. The problem with aiming high (ie, 82, for example) is that then when the summer heat hits, the tank can't go much higher without being too hot. Since my tank will hit 84 on a summer day, I worry that if it started out at 82, , it might still gain 5-6 degrees, and that's too hot.

9) Have I got any chance at all of keeping them alive through this?
You bet. Lots of worse things have been attempted. One thing I would really recommend you do is to learn more about the puffers. They are great fish, with spectacular personalities, but they do have special needs, and require a bit more effort than say, a danio.
 
are you sure you are not getting your nitrites and nitrates mixed up? i say this because nitrate is the end product of ammonia and nitrite, and as there is no ammonia it is apparent that biological filtration is taking place, and so it would make more sence that you have 0.25ppm nitrate, which is in acceptable boundaries. however, if it is nitrites, then firstly they are already at dangerous levels (any ammonia or nitrites reading about trace is to be considered dangerous when keeping temperamental fish), and secondly buy a new nitrate test kit as i would think it is not working.

but...heres some more info for you on those wonderful fish you have...

common name: FIGURE EIGHT PUFFER
scientific name: TETRAODON BIOCELLATUS
pronounciation: TETRA-OHO-DON BY-OSS-ELL-AY-TUSS
average max size: 6-8CM
diet: SNAILS AND SHRIMPS

these fish can be kept in either fresh water or brakish conditions, with an ideal pH between 7 and 8. they can be quite nippy and bite other fish, but will generally tolerate other puffers.

hope all this helps, and good luck!
 
Thanks for the quick response - I will digest the information and get back!

My long term plans are to put them into a bigger tank (when we have room!).

I'm certain that the tests I did were as per the instructions that came with them and I have correctly labelled them (as it were). but I am not certain I am reading the results correctly as the colour charts are a little, erm, difficult to compare with if you see what I mean.

I actually have two different NitrIte test kits (for NO2). They both show the presence of NitrItes. Maybe I will buy another NitrAte (NO3) kit...

Could it be that there were sufficient bacteria still alive in the gravel / filter?

I will also replace the carbon with floss if it isn't doing anything now anyway and do twice daily 10% water changes.

Thanks again for the quick (and thorough) responses, I will keep you informed (and no doubt ask more q's!).

Ade.
 
You took the dive I almost took, thank goodness, I got on here before I jumped into the puffer deep end, Mom would never allow live brine shrimp in the house!

If you'll get on here and do a quick search for puffers, you'll find some threads and good links, like everyone has said, puffers tend to be special needs, but since they're eating and happy, you have some time to work the details out.

On to the bacteria, if I'm following, you had a tank with goldies in it that was cycled (if for no reason other than the fish had been there a long time) then you took everything and rinsed it in tap water? I did the same thing not too long ago, and got the same bewildering test results you have now. My feeling, the good bacteria survived the tap water scrub, and your tank is nearly cycled again. If I'm right, look for nitrites to drop to 0 and nitrates to come up in the next couple of days =). No reason to chance things though, so when you pull out that carbon, leave as much of the other filter media in there as you can, because it probably has your good bacteria growing in it.

Good luck, read up, and I'm sure you'll have some very happy puffers!
 
Right - thanks everyone for the input, here are todays results:

Ph = 6.4
Amonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = 0

!!!!

I tested the nitrites with two seperate kits (including the one that gave positive results yesterday and it was definitely 0.

I'm a bit confused by this. Could it be that the process hasn't even started yet?

I've been religous with the water changes (2 yesterday, 1 so far today - after testing the water), and the fluval is now pumping more water through than it was with carbon in it (it has floss in it now).

A few responses to people:

OrionGirl
Thanks for your detailed response, I have been looking into puffers anyway but will continue to learn.

I have looked for info on Easy-life - their web site has links to independent tests and details the claims they make for the product.


thom336
Like I say I've been careful with the testing and have used more than one kit.

They are wonderful, I agree!

spottedcatfish
Take the plunge - they're great!!!

Yes I washed the gravel / filter etc in tap water and then put it straight back in the tank.

I really hope you are right - the nitrites have dissapeared so maybe, just maybe...
 
Very reasonable. The bacteria which metabolize the nitrogen cycle are not pansies--a little rinsing in tap water won't kill them off. Since you have been doing water changes and reventing serious spikes (which can inhibit bacterial growth), they should be able to recover quickly. Furthermore, if you had 4 goldfish in this tank, they likely would have produced much more waste than 2 puffers, which means there isn't a need for a huge bio-bed.

The pH is still a tad on the low side. You may want to get a small amount of crushed coral and keep it in a nylon baggie (old nylons work well, just whack off a toe). This will increase the hardness as well, and increase the pH. You'll want to play around with the amount used, until you get a stable pH closer to 7.0. This is a better method of increasing the pH than using the chemical stuff. That stuff doesn't change the buffering capacity of the tank, meaning it creates temporary changes only. Using CC will require less fiddling, once you have the amount figured out. Also, many of the chemical pH manipulators use phosphates, which can bring on a nasty algae bloom. Sorry--didn't notice you mentioned using the stuff earlier! You may want to test your tap water after allowing it to sit out over night. Often times, CO2 is dissolved in the water, but gasses off overnight, lowering the pH dramatically.
 
I know ph-up is not the best solution - to be honest I just wanted a 'quick fix' and it seemed the simplist solution at the time.

As I learn more about controlling and testing ph / hardness I will use more long term methods to control it.

The ph in the old tank (same tp water) was around 7 / 7.5 so I'm hoping it naturally levels out at this.

As for the amount of waste produced by the goldfish, one of them in particular was a large, greedy, erm - waste producing :) fish. The puffers are tiny by comparison and have the tank to themselves.

Just bought them some whitebait (a different person at the LFS said that is what they were eating there), but they wouldn't let me have any snails, which I thought was a bit tight - surely they would have thousands of them?

Thanks,
Ade.
 
Some LFS will allow you to go snail diving, others are a bit stuffy (they seem to think you're going to grab a fish as well?) about having anyone dredging through. Try getting chummy with one of the employees, and ask if they would be willing to collect some for you from a planted tank (our LFS is thrilled to do this for me, since it means the squeemish girl can pull them out, but not have to crunch them up). Make sure they understand you want the common pond snails, not any of their high cents apple snails or ramshorns.
 
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