Amazon Molly - Cloning Themselves!!

[THE V]

The difference being, these species generally will become extinct rather quickly (relatively speaking) because their genes weaken due to no new DNA being introduced. However, the Amazon Molly has managed to not only survive but become one of the strongest, heartiest fish out there.

The oldest species still alive on this planet reproduce asexually... The sexual reproducing ones just change faster... sometimes. Heterorgeneity can be positive, negative or neutral when it comes to fitness and so can homogeneity.

There are different strains of the molly because of mutations to the genome add up as time goes on. You don't always have a perfect clone of the female (I could probably look up the probability but I'm tired). Small mutations can cause large phenotypic changes and large mutations can be mostly unexpressed depending upon the location in the genome. Mutations happen at a steady constant speed and is a function of generation interval.

If I wasn't so tired from typing a term paper for my university course I'd do a quick little google scholar search for you on the subject. You just know something like this has been extensively studied and most of the genes involved have been named and perhaps even sequenced.

As to the lack of believe that you have them in you tank. They are either amazons or a very highly inbred molly strain - sibling bred for 10+ generations. However if you have no males from this set of babies, it's probably the amazon.

 

[SftWrmRain]

The V - yes you are correct. I had read all of the info you stated also, but dealing with less than intelligent people on a daily basis (work) has caused me to simplify nearly everything I do. :evil_lol:

Nonetheless, I have been wrong before, and am not opposed to being wrong again. So, I took some time this morning to gather pictures of our little white mollies. I struggled in many different lighting situations to get good images, so this is the reason for the drastic color changes in the images. Also, you'll notice the fish keep swimming in and out of the light, causing them to appear differently. I tried to get a couple where the lighting remained very consistent though too.

I hated cramming them all into this tiny container, but they move so quick it was the only way to even think of getting pictures that would even remotely help for the purpose intended here.

I know many of you will spend a lot of time trying to pick out even the tiniest difference between them, and you'll likely succeed. Whether or not that makes them Amazons or not I don't know. Hierarchy is established, I would assume, even in these types of fish, so some are slightly bigger than the others, and environmental scratches/nips could also contribute to teeny differences. Just something to keep in mind.

Oh, and please excuse the dirt/water spots and the fish poop. They weren't in there but a few minutes but they sure poop a lot when they're nervous! :evil_lol:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies10.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies11.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies2.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies3.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies4.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies5.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies6.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies7.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies8.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies9.jpg

And this one doesn't serve much purpose other than it was kind of cool.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SftWrmRain/Mollies/Mollies12.jpg

 

[bazil323]

I think that it is a very real possibility that a wild caught Amazon molly got mixed in with captive bred mollies. My lfs gets fish from several sources and mixes them in the same tank, so you could easily get a molly from a wild source in the same scoop as a molly that was bred down the street.

I'd be more convinced that they were truly Amazon mollies if there was a distinctive spot that they all shared, but even so, I do think that what you have are Amazon mollies. Given that they are all pure white and seem to be female, that alone should be a tip-off. In the quote that was posted in this thread earlier (too lazy to find and quote it here, lol), it said that the female Amazon molly must mate with a male molly, but the sperm does not mix with the egg, basically. So, the female Amazon you got must have been with a male molly at some point in the lfs, and since mollies can reproduce several times from one mating, you'll probably have to deal with a few batches of baby Amazons. But, after a few months, unless you expose them to another male, they shouldn't have any more babies. I think.

 

[jaysen]

very kool mollies. i wonder if they can still interbreed with other male molly species. if so i would put in a male lyretail sailfin molly and see if i can get them to be fancy clones.

 

[ChilDawg]

very kool mollies. i wonder if they can still interbreed with other male molly species. if so i would put in a male lyretail sailfin molly and see if i can get them to be fancy clones.

AFAIK they take the sperm from other mollies only to stimulate the development of eggs, and none of the genetic material. I don't know if they could engage in sexual reproduction without laboratorical manipulation.

 

[SftWrmRain]

I think that it is a very real possibility that a wild caught Amazon molly got mixed in with captive bred mollies. My lfs gets fish from several sources and mixes them in the same tank, so you could easily get a molly from a wild source in the same scoop as a molly that was bred down the street.

I'd be more convinced that they were truly Amazon mollies if there was a distinctive spot that they all shared, but even so, I do think that what you have are Amazon mollies. Given that they are all pure white and seem to be female, that alone should be a tip-off.

Yes, the molly I purchased was in a tank with many different kinds of mollies, males of swords and balloons, etc. so there is no doubt she "fake-mated" with a male of a similar species although it doesn't matter so much since none of the DNA material is accepted anyway (except miniscule bits on very rare occasions).

I was wondering, though, if one "fake-mating" would produce multiple broods, if the female is then kept separate from all males? It seems it would, but not due to stored sperm, as is the case with normal mollies, but because once the female's reproductive system is triggered, I would imagine it is then set into action for the duration of her reproductive years, much like a young girl going through puberty.

Oh and there are markings, but most are probably hard to compare in pictures because they move so fast and there are so many but if you look at "mollies5" - the overhead view, you can kind of see markings on their heads that are alike.