Ammonia test strips

Well I was told to leave it for 6 days and dose prime every 24 hours

Well, it's been 3.5 days since I added the TSS and my ammonia readings are going UP. This morning we found this on another forum; it is a response to questions regarding Tetra Safe Start from the manufacturer:

"In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a
chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up
ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using
such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after
using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the
food the bacteria require to live."


So it appears that I have probably killed all the bacteria the TSS added since I've been dosing with Prime everyday since adding TSS. :devil: Looks like I'm back to daily water changes and frantic hoping and praying! Perhaps this is the reason the TSS doesn't work for some people. One would think they could be clear about that on their packaging!

Live and learn, eh? :help:
 
I disagree with that statement wholeheartedly based on what I did and what I've heard about the way prime reacts with it. When I used safe start my tank finished its cycle in less than a week and I was dosing from 1-5x prime every 24 hours. I could be wrong but I just don't see that statement as anything but making sure to say the right thing for their product just in case. Still keep an eye on it though and good luck!

Edit:

I was just thinking you could be right that that is why people have trouble. Now that I think about it I used mine right when the nitrite cycle started. It did work but maybe that makes a difference. Either way if you think that it has not worked you can still do what I did and as soon as ammonia hits zero and nitrite shoots up add it again. People told me the nitrite part of cycling was the longest part but, like I said, less than a week from nitrite spike to cycled from adding safe start
 
Thanks, Nepherael. We just did a water change and the plan now is to change water daily and keep adding the Prime...

Some of what I've read about cycling is confusing the hell outta me. I read someone post the other day that "my tank will be cycled tomorrow afternoon..." How can you know that precisely when it's done? For that matter, how do you know at all it's done cycling? When the ammonia is at 0? Is that when we should stop daily water changes and daily Prime?
 
When ammonia hits zero nitrite will spike, then nitrite will hit zero and nitrate will spike. When ammonia and nitrite are zero you are cycled. Nitrate will never be zero, shoot to keep it under 40ppm
 
I disagree with that statement wholeheartedly based on what I did and what I've heard about the way prime reacts with it. When I used safe start my tank finished its cycle in less than a week and I was dosing from 1-5x prime every 24 hours. I could be wrong but I just don't see that statement as anything but making sure to say the right thing for their product just in case. Still keep an eye on it though and good luck!

Edit:

I was just thinking you could be right that that is why people have trouble. Now that I think about it I used mine right when the nitrite cycle started. It did work but maybe that makes a difference. Either way if you think that it has not worked you can still do what I did and as soon as ammonia hits zero and nitrite shoots up add it again. People told me the nitrite part of cycling was the longest part but, like I said, less than a week from nitrite spike to cycled from adding safe start

Are you sure TSS worked for you though? Isn't less than a week a reasonable (although slightly on the faster side) amount of time to complete a cycle once nitrites show up anyway? And did you seed the tank with anything else at all from an established tank? Plants, filter material, gravel, anything? If so, I would think that *could* account for the accelerated timeline as much as the TSS could. I'm not saying that TSS doesn't work, I don't actually know. I used some in my cycling process but I honestly can't say that cycling DEFINITELY went any faster than it would have anyway given the massive seed I put in from established tanks (mainly plants, some gravel). And the question of whether it works or not in general is separate from the question of whether it might work but Prime kills it.
 
I did not seed my tank. I was one of the people that bought fish and a tank the same day. Didn't know anything and overstocked it and then started researching and stuff.

I'm not sure if less than a week is reasonable. I had high ammonia readings for over two weeks and was told that once the nitrite cycle starts that takes longer than the ammonia cycle so I assumed another 2-4 weeks but after adding safe start it was days.

As far as seeding goes I'd say that it is one or the other. Add safe start or seed. Safe start is supposed to start your beneficial bacteria culture so why add it if you have a culture there already by seeding? Know what I mean? At that point I can understand why there probably wasn't much difference because it seems like they both just did the same thing.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using the Monster Aquaria Network app
 
Ok, that makes more sense whay you'd think it was TSS that did it for you, but I have read all over the web people saying they were able to complete a full cycle in less than 3 weeks with no seed material, so the time frame still does not seem "magical" and definitive proof to me. I have no idea if these people don't know what they are talking about or if they are telling the truth how common such a timeline is, nor do I know how predictive the length of the ammonia part of the cycle is for the nitrite part. I know they lasted about the same amount of time for me(a little over a week), even though my ammonia never read above 0.75 ppm and my nitrite jumped to 2+ ppm.

As far as seeding goes I'd say that it is one or the other. Add safe start or seed. Safe start is supposed to start your beneficial bacteria culture so why add it if you have a culture there already by seeding? Know what I mean? At that point I can understand why there probably wasn't much difference because it seems like they both just did the same thing.

Why does it have to be one or the other? It not only matters WHAT bacteria you have but HOW MANY. Remember that these are common bacteria with spores floating in the air around us all the time. With this logic, why ever seed at all? You can get a perfectly acceptable beneficial bacteria colony from the air. The reason people do is that bacteria divide exponentially. You need enough to eat through however much of these chemicals you are producing every day. Exponential reproduction means that basically, the bacteria divide in 2 given a set amount of time. So, 1 bacteria divides into 2, those 2 divide into 4 in the approximate same amount of time it took the first one to divide, then those 4 divide into 8 and so forth. Say it takes 5 minutes for a bacteria to divide (making that up). At this rate, it would take you an hour to get 4000 bacteria from 1 "starter" bacteria. However, if you START with 4000 bacteria, you get 4000 more bacteria in just 5 minutes! Play with the math and you'll see that this effect just gets more pronounced the more bacteria you have, meaning it takes less time to get to the final number of bacteria you need for your bioload. So that is how seeding "jumpstarts" the bio filter growth.

Then, there is the fact you need 2 types of bacteria - one that eats ammonia and one that eats nitrite. As you know, hwne cycling you have to keep giving the bacteria food or the cycle will die. This is because the bacterial colonies will only be as big as the food will support, and if there is not enough food, they start dieing off. So I (and most people who seed) put a lot of beneficial ammonia eating AND nitrite eating bacteria into my tank with the seed material. My NEW tank that had ammonia within hours but did not have nitrite showing up as testable in the water for another week! So it seemed reasonable to ME to suspect that at leats some of the nitrite eating bacteria I had introduced in the seed material had at that point died off. That was the point at which I used TSS because I figured, hey, what could it hurt?

And who knows? Maybe it worked! Maybe that's why my nitrite cycle went as fast as the ammonia.Or maybe not. I personally figured it was worth the money to at least try! My point is you could never know whether it actually worked based on use in any given tank. The only way to know is to trust the company's own research data (at which point it also makes sense to trust what they tell you about dechlor and TSS) OR to set up an experiment yourself with multiple tanks, half of which randomly get TSS and the other half that don't, and control ALL other variables between tanks to the greatest extent feasible.
 
Yeah I got ya. And I see where you're coming from about seeding and adding it in. You're right though. I don't know for sure at all that it made a difference. I based it solely on being told that the nitrite cycle would take longer than the ammonia cycle and that definitely doesn't make it concrete. I think that I'll definitely keep using it if I ever need to cycle something though. If only just to make myself feel better XD
 
LOL I hear you there! I was already planning on dumping some into the 10 G I'm setting up, even with seed material :) Like I said, the possibility it is helping is worth the money to me, and their data seems pretty good.
 
The high ammonia reading is making me crazy. I'm told the Prime makes it non-toxic for the fish. True? Is it ok to do more than one water change a day? If so, should I vacuum the gravel again, or just remove water?
 
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