Angelfish with huge lips~time to euthanize?

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platytudes

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It's funny, I seem to recall this being a more prominent problem in veil tailed angels...

I had heard of it and even seen it at the LFS before - not for a long time, though. I thought it was one of those things that sort of went away, guess not!
 

Star_Rider

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Having spent a majority of my fish keeping related to Angelfish. I have heard of this and have done surgeries on my angels in the past(including clipping away fins)

good job.

I've had mixed results but have only had to do this surgey once. my angel lived a few more year before crashing into the side of the tank when startled.
 

finsNfur

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Thanks, everyone!

Having spent a majority of my fish keeping related to Angelfish. I have heard of this and have done surgeries on my angels in the past(including clipping away fins)

good job.

I've had mixed results but have only had to do this surgey once. my angel lived a few more year before crashing into the side of the tank when startled.
Oh, that is promising news! I am just so impatient for her to heal, I keep staring at the poor thing, the tank is right next to me. It's a wonder she isn't hiding from me, but I guess this is a good thing, right? Do you think it's contagious? I have an angel in another tank, and if my poor "Hot Lips" as I've come to think of her over time should not recover, I might move the other one into this same tank one day. But if it's at all contagious I would never want to put another angel in it again.
 

platytudes

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If it's viral, then it may be contagious...but if it's genetic, it wouldn't be. I kind of don't think it would be contagious, but I personally wouldn't want to add more angelfish to the tank while Hot Lips is in it. However if she were to pass away, I think there would be no fear of contagion. A virus needs a host.

The dwarf gourami iridovirus is a good example of a virus that affects fish...I don't think it is terribly contagious. Unfortunately, with a contagion rate of as high as 33% by some estimates, it's made Colisa lalia a very unreliable choice of gourami.
 

Fozzybear

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Yeah I lost a very beloved colisa lalia to iridovirus >.<

anyways, there can be a middle ground with the whole viral/genetic/contagion question. We do know that there are viruses that one can have a genetic weakness towards such as encephalitis and I'm fairly sure that herpes is one two. I'd keep her QT'd until most of the symptoms decline and then reintroduce her and clean the heck out of the QT tank. If its your display tank and you've pulled your other into a different tank...start over?
 

finsNfur

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I'm sorry to hear you lost your gourami, fozzybear. I had some dwarf gouramis for a year or more, beautiful fish.

Interesting, I didn't realize that the removal of a fish would remove the virus, I was afraid it might lurk around in tank awhile. Hopefully it's genetic, not viral. At any rate my other angel is in my 37g and quite happy with swordtails, I have no immediate plans to move him. In fact if "Hot Lips" makes it, the other angel will remain in the 37. Only if I lost Hot Lips would I think of moving the other one. Although, eventually my goldies may make it into the 46. I have plans for a 55 one day if my older kids would just move OUT. LOL, one just graduated and got a job, but he's still here.

Hot Lips is doing okay, not looking sick, but not being entirely her old self yet. Whenever I come to see her she comes up to the surface hoping for food. Some pieces of her lips have turned white/died and have fallen off, I think most of the upper lip will be greatly reduced in size. The lower lip is still puffy on one side.
 

vwill279

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That is exactly what I'm feeding her, it has garlic in it. :)

I never could have done it without reading of others doing it, successfully. I guess it is such a rare disease that not many have heard of it, so surgery is kind of a new thing. Here's a pic of her before the surgery, I'll take one of her tomorrow or so, I don't want to upset her any further right now. Even with the flash off a green light shines when I focus.

Oh man, I'm looking now, and I had left some of it behind, I had just cut across the middle to clear an opening. Now some of the puffy stuff left behind on both sides is kind of peeling, one tiny piece just fell away.

I hope no one is eating lunch. :crazy: I read some of the surgeries had resulted in something like that, with the immune system kicking in, and any remaining fibromas go away.
Total props for doing the surgery. Its awesome to read someone putting aside their own fear and disgust to help out one of their fish. I also know how incredibly hard it is to do surgeries on small animals. I spayed a mouse once and even though it only took a half hour, I was sweating and shaky with exhaustion by the time it was done.

As for the immune system kicking in once the growths are damaged and helping to clear away the rest, that is a fairly common way to treat viral growths. We did that with my puppy when he got mouth warts. Crushing them and breaking them up (so that he swallows some of the nasty) actually forces the immune system to react more strongly, speeding recovery time by quite a bit. It was super disgusting, but it did knock a week and a half off of the vet's prognosis for when they would clear up.

I'm pulling with you for a speedy recovery for your girl. I dont think she'll need it though, sounds like she's in the best of hands!
 

finsNfur

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She's still doing good, very alert and active! Definitely has an appetite and is enjoying eating again. Her lips still look awful, I don't think she'll even win any beauty contests, but I am very pleased with her progress thus far.
 
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