Another question...cycling

[katana1200]

Ok, trying to saturate my brain with all the information I can in the hopes that some of it will stick. Perhaps this should go in the planted tank section perhaps here will be ok. I've hear alot about using media from a cycled tank to help seed a brand new tank. Here is my next thought.

When I do set up the beautiful 72gal I intend on purchasing, I will be planting it with some low light needing plants. Java fern, java moss, water wisteria etc, wendtii crypt, (maybe flame moss?) Some of the research I've done says if you let the tank start to cycle for around 2 weeks with just plants you can start by adding a few algea eating fish (SAEs and a few Ottos). Now, does this run contrary to normal fishless cycling? Would close monitoring of the water be enough to keep the little algea eaters from harm? I do have a small 2.5 gal eclipse tank that I have my one african cichlid in. It is a miracle that he has ever survived my inital lack of knowledge and infrequent water changes but still he lives. (I think he is plotting my death as I am sure he hates me) Can I, in theory, place a small filter sponge in the bottom of his tank now, wait a couple of weeks while I create my background and purge it of any impurities, then add the sponge to the sand substrate or canister filter when I start my initial plant only cycling? Would that be such a small bacteria colony that it would be laughable to place it in such a large enviroment? Would 2 or 3 weeks be enough for a bacteria colony to establish itself on a filter sponge? Thanks for wading through all my questions. I've started 4 new threads now and still dont even have a tank to speak of lol. Just hungry for knowledge....FEED ME!

 

[jpappy789]

Sort of. Plants will suck up ammonia and nitrite however, the plants you listed will do considerably less of that than say hornwort or hygrophila, which are nutrient hogs. Technically you can add fish if you keep a close eye on the parameters but it involves not only a lot of testing but a fairly high amount of established plants to do so correctly. Also, some advice, otos need mature tanks and would not do well if for some reason ammonia spiked.

A better idea would be to use a portion of established media from your other tank (which is way past it's stocking limit btw, but that's another story) to seed your new tank. A little amount of bacteria can go a long way in cycling your tank. With this method you could plant right away and start stocking very slowly in order to provide an ammonia source for your colony to grow. Keep in mind this still takes careful monitoring of your water quality, but it would be as close to an instant cycle as you could get.

 

[Dr. Awkward]

If you put fish in the tank it is no longer fishless cycling. If you put them in at two weeks into the cycle it will be extra bad because that's about the time the ammonia and nitrites are through the roof. I wouldn't even thing about adding otos until the tank has been up and running and cycled for at least six months.

A small sponge filter from a 2.5 gallon tank will not give you enough bacteria for a 72 gallon tank. It will give you enough for a 1.75 gallon tank.

Is the 72 gallon tank for your cichlid? You do know that you can't keep plants in an African cichlid tank? The plants will be ripped to shreds.

 

[jpappy789]

If you put fish in the tank it is no longer fishless cycling. If you put them in at two weeks into the cycle it will be extra bad because that's about the time the ammonia and nitrites are through the roof. I wouldn't even thing about adding otos until the tank has been up and running and cycled for at least six months.

A small sponge filter from a 2.5 gallon tank will not give you enough bacteria for a 72 gallon tank. It will give you enough for a 1.75 gallon tank.

Is the 72 gallon tank for your cichlid? You do know that you can't keep plants in an African cichlid tank? The plants will be ripped to shreds.

Plants will readily take in ammonia and nitrites, it's much easier than nitrates actually from what I've been told. Search 'silent cycling' and you'll see that it can be done.

And the whole point of seeding a tank is just that, it's a seed, not the entire colony. That's why special care has to be put into testing the water and stocking slowly in order to keep ammonia and nitrite at a minimum. Pure ammonia would be preferable actually, as it's a safer way to increase your colony without the chance of harming fish.

 

[LeahK]

I have heard that HEAVILY planted tanks can experience some kind of "silent cycle" in which a few fish may be added without ever getting measurable ammonia or nitrite levels. Maybe this info is what you came across in your research?
But I would recommend against adding algae eaters. Most of them need to be in cycled and established tanks, with enough algae to sustain them. Plus, I think the silent cycle is only possible in tanks that are, really, STUFFED with plants.
I think running a sponge filter in your little tank is a great idea. Then move it over to the 72 after a few weeks. It's not the size of the environment, but the amount of ammonia in the environment, that determines the size of the bacteria colony.

 

[jpappy789]

I have heard that HEAVILY planted tanks can experience some kind of "silent cycle" in which a few fish may be added without ever getting measurable ammonia or nitrite levels. Maybe this info is what you came across in your research?
But I would recommend against adding algae eaters. Most of them need to be in cycled and established tanks, with enough algae to sustain them. Plus, I think the silent cycle is only possible in tanks that are, really, STUFFED with plants.
I think running a sponge filter in your little tank is a great idea. Then move it over to the 72 after a few weeks. It's not the size of the environment, but the amount of ammonia in the environment, that determines the size of the bacteria colony.

I agree to an extent. The food source is a huge factor but so is the area of what the bacteria can colonize.

 

[katana1200]

Thank you both for the quick reply. Yes, the cichlid is too big for his 2.5gal home, thinking of a nice bookshelf model from Petco that I saw on sale today. Plastic plants only mind you for that one.

No, the 72 is going to be a community tank with Tiger barbs, Cherry barbs, Khuli Loaches, Zebra Danios, maybe a few Gold barbs or a coupld of Opalecent Gourami. All in the appropriate numbers I can assure you.

Thank you for the information on the Otos, I will wait to add them untill the tank has cycled completely and is stable.

I now have conflicting pinions on the filter sponge idea. A little goes a long way and no where near enough. Would it be better to put the plants in and go with the raw shrimp plan of fishless cycling? Or pure amonia for that matter?

 

[LeahK]

I agree to an extent. The food source is a huge factor but so is the area of what the bacteria can colonize.

Right. I think we both posted at the same time.
I just didn't want to discourage the OP from using the sponge filter as a way to seed her new tank (because she seemed worried about the colony being "too small" for the 72).
Like jpappy said, once you move the seeded sponge filter to the new tank, you can start using pure ammonia to increase the size of the colony.

 

[katana1200]

He, for the record but that's my own fault for not filling out a bio. Now I'm worried that I type like a girl lol.

 

[LeahK]

I now have conflicting pinions on the filter sponge idea. A little goes a long way and no where near enough. Would it be better to put the plants in and go with the raw shrimp plan of fishless cycling? Or pure amonia for that matter?

Lots of ninja posts here :evil_lol:.
The point of seeding the filter is to jump start your cycle. It may not be an instant cycle, but it will definitely be quicker than it would be without the seeded filter. I say, seed the sponge filter, move it to the new tank, and then use either ammonia or a shrimp to complete the fishless cycle.