Well, they can certainly go to town on them. I had a group of three that along with a BN cleared a 30 gallon tank full of diatoms within 48 hours.
Anyone ever try to grow diatoms intionally?
- Thread starter James0816
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I've been trying here in Durham NC for several months to grow lots of diatoms for my hillstream loaches; in Oregon they spawned regularly in a 20L w/lotsa rocks & current, & i almost daily traded out diatom-cevered rocks from my big E. canarensis tanks --those hillstreams can eat an astounding amount of diatoms. The water in Or was soft (GH & KH ~2-3, neutral pH, I added a little potassium to the cana tanks for the java moss & bolbitis.
Here in Durham the water parameters seem to be about the same, but I'm going bananas trying to get enough diatoms for the hillstreams. I did some research on diatoms & found the main requirements for their growth seem to be phosphorus, silica, & pectin (oddly enough). As mentioned before, silica is nearly insoluble (except in ....I think it was hydrofluoric or maybe picric acid....not what you want in your tanks). I've tried supplementing with varying amounts of phosphorus & pectin & some pure silica gel from my lab, in tanks & buckets & tubs, high, low, & medium light, etc etc ad nauseum. The only definitive conclusion I've reached is that it's impossible to grow diatoms if you really want them, & impossible not to if you don't want 'em.
My next experiment is using diatomaceous earth along with the phosphorus & pectin. I'm going to try adding a mild acid (maybe boil some in white vinegar, since it will boil away), maybe grind some up....the blasted silica that formed all those multi-gajillions of diatoms that make up say, the cliffs of Dover & all the other diatomaceous formations all over the earth must've come from somewhere, & I'm determined to get some silica out of those frigging dead diatoms somehow.
I hope. As Scotty said, I'll let ya knoo.
Oh, I tried the ground food in the egg-white trick; the hillstreams didn't much go for it, the 2 otos in the tank ate a little bit, but oddly enough the furcata rainbows were most interested in it. I did find the food floating off the rock after about 5 minutes, tho; perhaps I didn't let it dry long enough? I left it out for about 2 hours before putting it in the tank. My Etroplus canarensis, of course, went nuts over it. They eat awfuchs in the wild, & in the 6 years I've been breeding them I have yet to find anything they won't devour like starving wolverines, so they're not exactly helpful critics.
Here in Durham the water parameters seem to be about the same, but I'm going bananas trying to get enough diatoms for the hillstreams. I did some research on diatoms & found the main requirements for their growth seem to be phosphorus, silica, & pectin (oddly enough). As mentioned before, silica is nearly insoluble (except in ....I think it was hydrofluoric or maybe picric acid....not what you want in your tanks). I've tried supplementing with varying amounts of phosphorus & pectin & some pure silica gel from my lab, in tanks & buckets & tubs, high, low, & medium light, etc etc ad nauseum. The only definitive conclusion I've reached is that it's impossible to grow diatoms if you really want them, & impossible not to if you don't want 'em.
My next experiment is using diatomaceous earth along with the phosphorus & pectin. I'm going to try adding a mild acid (maybe boil some in white vinegar, since it will boil away), maybe grind some up....the blasted silica that formed all those multi-gajillions of diatoms that make up say, the cliffs of Dover & all the other diatomaceous formations all over the earth must've come from somewhere, & I'm determined to get some silica out of those frigging dead diatoms somehow.
I hope. As Scotty said, I'll let ya knoo.
Oh, I tried the ground food in the egg-white trick; the hillstreams didn't much go for it, the 2 otos in the tank ate a little bit, but oddly enough the furcata rainbows were most interested in it. I did find the food floating off the rock after about 5 minutes, tho; perhaps I didn't let it dry long enough? I left it out for about 2 hours before putting it in the tank. My Etroplus canarensis, of course, went nuts over it. They eat awfuchs in the wild, & in the 6 years I've been breeding them I have yet to find anything they won't devour like starving wolverines, so they're not exactly helpful critics.
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Well yeah, & spring break would be a whole different kettle of beer if there were no such thing as beaches. As far as I can tell, diatomaceous earth is not necessarily chemically identical to glass or quartz sand due to various impurities. The solubility issue is unclear; various MSDSs list its solubility between insoluble & over 2%; still not much. At the very least, in view of the fact that diatom filters have been in use for decades, DE doesn't appear to be detrimental to fish.
some 'natural' supplement sites tout something called DE "Fossil Flour" as being soluble, but I haven't found any really reliable source on what, exactly, that is (other than expensive).
So far, best option for those who're determined to try silica supplementation as the secret to cultivating diatoms seems to be sodium silicate. I'm researching thru dye & pottery supply manufacturers to try & find out what, if any, other chemicals/impurities it might contain.
some 'natural' supplement sites tout something called DE "Fossil Flour" as being soluble, but I haven't found any really reliable source on what, exactly, that is (other than expensive).
So far, best option for those who're determined to try silica supplementation as the secret to cultivating diatoms seems to be sodium silicate. I'm researching thru dye & pottery supply manufacturers to try & find out what, if any, other chemicals/impurities it might contain.
I was told I probably had high phosphates in my tap water that kept 1 eco complete tank in diatoms for a couple years until I added a BN plec. No other tank had diatoms except my discus grow out tank, lots of slime coat I guess helped.
I'm not sure how you'd dose phosphates & discus growing is hard work, good luck.
I'm not sure how you'd dose phosphates & discus growing is hard work, good luck.
Ooof, discus are definitely above my pay grade --besides, all my big tanks are taken up with my true loves, the somewhat obscure cichlid Etroplus canarensis. I've been liberally dosing my (supposed) diatom growing tanks with pfertz brand phosphorus, but apparently this is not the limiting factor; in one of the tanks I've been putting in about 4 times the recommended dose. Diatom results: zilch. I won it in a raffle at our local aquarium club, so didn't have to fork out the rather large amount of cash. Not sure if I'll get more.
In my river tank I have large smooth stones and those collect alot of diatoms. My snails roll them over and get all the diatoms.
F1 canas
Hey, Sub, how many would you be interested in? I've got 60-ish F1s that were spawned last summer; they're 1-1.5 inches long (the canas are fairly slow growing, despite the fact that they always eat like starving wolverines). I've been spawning my 9 original (wild caught) parents for about 4.5 years; the WC & the F1s start spawning activity around 2-2.5 years. I put just about all the info I've been able to collect on them in the species summary in the Cichlid Room Companion (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?id=162) in case yer interested. There's vids of 'em on youtube under my "ecanarensis" ID, & I got lotsa baby & other pix.
Hey, Sub, how many would you be interested in? I've got 60-ish F1s that were spawned last summer; they're 1-1.5 inches long (the canas are fairly slow growing, despite the fact that they always eat like starving wolverines). I've been spawning my 9 original (wild caught) parents for about 4.5 years; the WC & the F1s start spawning activity around 2-2.5 years. I put just about all the info I've been able to collect on them in the species summary in the Cichlid Room Companion (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?id=162) in case yer interested. There's vids of 'em on youtube under my "ecanarensis" ID, & I got lotsa baby & other pix.
