Approach to irresponsible fishkeepers

There's also a huge difference between being a tank nazi, wanting to improve pet conditions and dealing with absolute abuse.

The first seem to be more about ego, or maybe a total lack of any social life. The slightest deviation from their absolute standards of care are condemned as absolutely unacceptable, death to your fish and evidence that you're too stupid to own a pet. Thankfully they commonly end up bitter recluses who refuse to interact with the rest of society. I like that
outcome.

The last is, ideally, something we'd all be moved to address. Dead and dying fish, fish kept in conditions that are life threatening...this is the stuff that rescue tanks are made of.

The middle ground is where it gets sticky. And where it pays to keep your ego out of the picture, be positive in your efforts rather than condemning and to recognize that some folks take awhile to come around.
 
my moms girlfriend has a 55 gallon in one of her walls and she has no interest in it whatsoever.

The poor tank never gets cleaned and most of the fish died save for a few tough platties and a pair of swordfish...

I keep trying to tell her to take care of it and even said a python will make cleaning easy but she wouldn't hear any of it. *shrug*
 
I like the direction that the discussion on this post is going, but my original intention with this post was not to get peoples opinions on being a fish despot, proslitizing from on high about how we should not abuse our fish. I fluctuate between not saying anything and politely telling people about proper fish care depending on how I think the person will take it. I was curious mainly because there are so many people on this site who seem to get very angry about "stupid" questions by newbs (I put the quotes there because I personally don't consider the questions stupid), and I wanted to get a feel of how people deal with this stuff in real life.

In response to the post about dogs in small apartments: I do feel that if you live in an apartment in a city that buying a lab or a collie or something else that is large and needs to be outdoors, you are doing the same thing as someone who buys fish and then effectively lets them die by keeping them in a poor environment. The difference is that there are numerous breeds of dogs out there that prefer being indoors and don't need a lot of room. There is no such thing as a fish that will be "happier" in a small tank with poor water quality. There are baseline conditions that all fish need, and they are much harder to attain than the baseline conditions needed for a dog of appropriate size and temperment.
 
:hang:

Well, I'm going out here on a limb and also hijack the thread even further.

A friend of mine told me that he'd like gas prices to go up to around $6 a gallon. Why? Quote: "So that I'm one of the few people who can afford gas and all the Tom, **** and Harry's are off the street."

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view, this type of economics applies to all of us aquarium lovers as well. If only the people who -should- own fish would own fish, then a small bottle of Prime would be $36.99 and a Neon Tetra would sell for around $14.99. I know this will cause alot of aggrevation, but because Tom likes to keep his Betta in a cup of water, **** likes to keep his 25 Neon Tetra school in a 3 gallon tank and Harry can't figure out why his Guppies keep dying in a tank he changes the water in once every 12 months, that's why alot of us can afford to keep fish.

If this wasn't a mass market where money can be made, I don't think PetsMart and Petco and all of the others would be in it, yes... even your LFS that gives you all the good tips. Money is why they're doing this. Maybe your LFS owner -likes- what he does, but he's still doing it so he can afford not to sleep under a bridge, in a cardboard box.

Back to what we were talking about. What would I do? Like someone else said, it would probably depend on who's doing it. If it were a friend, I'd tell them in a friendy manner, if it were a complete stranger, I'd hold my tongue. Just like I hold my tongue when I see someone smoke a cigarette, order a 4x4 cheeseburger with triple fat and double calories, buy a designer dog who can barely walk, men wearing their pants underneath their beer bellies or women wearing shirts and pants which expose their flabby midriffs.

Regrettably, some things you can't change and you have to accept other peoples choices as their own.
 
my point was, irresponsible fish keepers keep their fish in a tank with nasty, unleathy water. yes, there is no wait to avoid the fish breathing their own waste, BUT in a properly cared for aquarium, there should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and less than 30ppm nitrate with low TDS. in an improperly cared for aquarium, it may be uncycled, have insuficient filtration, infrequent water changes, all of which result in dirty water with much higher TDS and possibly even ammonia and nitrite, and usually too-high nitrate.

that is why its more important to keep a properly stocked, properly maintained aquarium. the air a bird or a dog breaths in your home is going to be the same air you breathe and isn't going to affect them as much as a fish breathing excessive ammounts of its own waste in a poorly cared for aquarium.
 
i'm just matter-of-fact. also, my betta lived in a 1/2g bowl for 2 months before he went into my CT. of course, his was lighted, heated, filtered, and even planted!
 
I agree with you that impulsive people who buy fish and aren't prepared for it are the driving force in the aquarium supply industry, but if half of those people actually read up, found out what they were doing, and bought all the necessary supplies, the industry wouldn't take a hit. It would actually probably do better. Better than that even, if everyone who bought a fish also bought a Bio-Wheel, a packet of Bio-Spira, a nice heater, etc. then the prices of those would come down to the serious aquarists benefit. As more people spent money on Penguin and Tetra and whatever other brand products, those companies would in turn be able to put more money into research and development, and again the serious aquarist would benefit because better products would come on the consumer market.

The impulse buyers drive the industry, but the only thing that would hurt the market is if they dried up. We would not be hurt if they became more educated.
 
nerdyguy83 said:
I agree with you that impulsive people who buy fish and aren't prepared for it are the driving force in the aquarium supply industry, but if half of those people actually read up, found out what they were doing, and bought all the necessary supplies, the industry wouldn't take a hit. It would actually probably do better. Better than that even, if everyone who bought a fish also bought a Bio-Wheel, a packet of Bio-Spira, a nice heater, etc. then the prices of those would come down to the serious aquarists benefit. As more people spent money on Penguin and Tetra and whatever other brand products, those companies would in turn be able to put more money into research and development, and again the serious aquarist would benefit because better products would come on the consumer market.

The impulse buyers drive the industry, but the only thing that would hurt the market is if they dried up. We would not be hurt if they became more educated.
Click to expand...
very wise, nerdman! :clap: :thm:
 
nerdyguy83 said:
The impulse buyers drive the industry, but the only thing that would hurt the market is if they dried up. We would not be hurt if they became more educated.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with that.

Some might end up not buying all the stuff they're buying now, because they'd realize upfront how much money they will need to throw at their new hobby.

On the other hand, you might be right and it'd all balance out when looking at the big picture. Maybe people would buy more Bio Spira and the darn 1oz packages wouldn't run me $12.99 anymore.

Just yesterday I saw a sign at PetsMart saying "Betta with everything you need: $9.99" ... which was a Betta, a container less than 20floz, food, NO water conditioner and less than a handful of gravel. What if people were more educated? Would the person who'd buy that offer for $9.99 either end up -not- buying it, or would that person buy all the things they -actually really- need?

I'm really not sure. I guess it depends on the person.
 
I definitely agree that the number of people buying fish and fish supplies would decrease if everyone was educated. I said "half the people" in my original post for that reason. The industry would lose a lot of customers, but those that were left would spend a lot more than that 9.99 once for "everything you need for a betta". If you are impulsive you spend maybe 30 bucks at a maximum for fish stuff if you aren't really serious about stuff but are at least ambitious in your foolishness. If you are dedicated, you spend hundreds of dollars over the years. One serious fishkeeper is worth 10 impulse buyers at least.
 
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