Aquarium Safe Paint: Email From Krylon

Krylon Safety

Thanks to everyone who responded! I got a good laugh out of the descriptions of the "corporate product testing."

Chip: THANK YOU for the helpful info! I know from experience that manufacturers are reluctant to put anything on their label that could come back to haunt them. Do latex paints used under water need to be coated with anything to keep them from peeling, or do they just need to cure for a month? I have seen a wide variety of products, with some pretty heavy price tags, called epoxy paint online and in the store. What's the diff?

It is interesting to hear what really works.

Chipster said:
I have not posted for a while now so you don't know me very well, but I think I can help out here.
FYI, I was a painting contractor for 35 years and now have a lot to do with aquarium backgrounds.
Two things we are concerned about, adhesion and toxicity.
Adhesion : With the products made these days adhesion is the best it has ever been, however, always use the best quality paint you can, usually meaning the more expensive. Always clean the surface to be painted very well, you know, no dust, dirt, grease, etc. The rougher the surface the better. And let the paint cure before harsh use.
Toxicity: Use either acrylic, latex, or epoxy paint for interior use. With the EPA rules these days, manufactures have to formulate interior paint to be non-toxic. The problem with exterior paint is the addition of fungicides to keep moss and mildew at bay.
Cure time: What does that mean ? The liquid in paint is called the vehicle. Cured paint is when all the vehicle is evaporated and completely gone. Just because paint is dry to the touch does not mean the vehicle is gone. 30 days is the average cure time for paint to cure completely, but after 2 weeks most of the vehicle is gone.
Also, when paint has completely cured to has it's best adhesion possible.
FYI, I happen to know that certain aquarium background manufacturer's have used interior acrylic latex paint for years with no problems.
Please don't ask me who.
One last thing, the thinner the coat of paint the better. A second coat takes a lot longer to cure because you trap the vehicle in the first coat.
I could go on with this, but maybe I will start a thread dedicated to paint sometime.
Hope I have shed a little light on the subject.

Chip
Click to expand...
 
No, they do not need to be coated. Coatings only protect the surface. If they stick, they stick. Personally, from what I know, I would not hesitate to use acrylic or acrylic latex in an aquarium, as long as the things discussed earlier were upheld.
The main difference with epoxy paint is that it cures mostly chemically therefore quicker. Also they are much harder on the surface and can take more abrasion.
The problem for me with epoxy is that it is very glossy, so it looks unnatural in an aquarium.
Would I guarantee all this ? Never, but when was the last time you ever herd someone say they painted something in their aquarium and it came unglued because the paint did not adhere ?
 
I have used Rust oleum Plastic and american accents spray paint in my tanks and my fish are fine.
 
Chipster said:
I have not posted for a while now so you don't know me very well, but I think I can help out here.
FYI, I was a painting contractor for 35 years and now have a lot to do with aquarium backgrounds.
Two things we are concerned about, adhesion and toxicity.
Adhesion : With the products made these days adhesion is the best it has ever been, however, always use the best quality paint you can, usually meaning the more expensive. Always clean the surface to be painted very well, you know, no dust, dirt, grease, etc. The rougher the surface the better. And let the paint cure before harsh use.
Toxicity: Use either acrylic, latex, or epoxy paint for interior use. With the EPA rules these days, manufactures have to formulate interior paint to be non-toxic. The problem with exterior paint is the addition of fungicides to keep moss and mildew at bay.
Cure time: What does that mean ? The liquid in paint is called the vehicle. Cured paint is when all the vehicle is evaporated and completely gone. Just because paint is dry to the touch does not mean the vehicle is gone. 30 days is the average cure time for paint to cure completely, but after 2 weeks most of the vehicle is gone.
Also, when paint has completely cured to has it's best adhesion possible.
FYI, I happen to know that certain aquarium background manufacturer's have used interior acrylic latex paint for years with no problems.
Please don't ask me who.
One last thing, the thinner the coat of paint the better. A second coat takes a lot longer to cure because you trap the vehicle in the first coat.
I could go on with this, but maybe I will start a thread dedicated to paint sometime.
Hope I have shed a little light on the subject.

Chip
Click to expand...
Hello, aquarium friends.

My name is Max and I am working props on a film involving several large aquariums that we need to paint on the interior. Chipster had some great advice but I need all the information possible in order to move forward.

It is a large and expensive sequence with multiple large freshwater and saltwater tanks, respectively. The tanks will have 4 silicone sides and an exposed steel floor. This steel element is what we need to paint black. These are parameters we are committed to and can't really change for our own purposes of filming.

We have professional fish handlers but none of them will commit or give their word about the paint, perhaps because of the liability it puts on them (like Krylon). We can't do anything that would jeopardize the fish not only because we don't want to harm them but because some are rare and expensive. On top of that, they'll have to move between tanks that day and that is enough stress already. Needless to say, it would be an enormous calamity if all of our fish dropped dead. So, what I guess I need is some professional verification of what is absolutely the correct choice and why, an example of how and where it's been used, to what degree of success.

Chipster mentions knowing some professionals but won't disclose their credentials. Could I perhaps contact them confidentially and ask what they use at their aquarium? You all seem pretty knowledgeable so please contact me if you can help me go any further with this.

You can contact me more directly at msherwood7400@gmail.com

Thank you very much for reading this far and thank you more if you can help me.

-Max
 
This is more directed for you Max.

Depending on where you are building, there will be a paint manufacturer in your area. Most major markets have one...Behr, Sherman Williams, etc.

For example, just a quick pull on Sherman Williams website brings up their various product lines and leads me to see they have a vivarium system...what looks like for both walls and floors.

Walls
http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/pdf/systems-by-industry/vivarium-wall-solutions.pdf

Floors
http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/pdf/systems-by-industry/vivarium-flooring-solutions.pdf

Looks like there are a number of products out there for aquatic use.

With that knowledge, I would contact the factory or at least one of the bigger SW stores and ask to talk to someone knowledgeable about those product lines and see if their applications fit your usage.

Did a little hunting...I'm going to say beyond a small shop, yourbest bet will be Sherman Williams.
 
GE 1 silicone also has a disclaimer in the fine print, not to use below water line or in aquariums, but we all know that's just legal bs.

I'm not sure if Max will be able to secure any kind of "official" seal of approval, but even off-the-record from someone in that field would be better than nothing.

For what it's worth, I've used a lot of this in my cichlid tank for several months with no problems. I'm even repainting that crappy black gravel. It's real good paint, similar to Fusion.

paint.jpg


Here's some rocks that were mismatched and discolored -

paint3.jpg


and that rough, powdery black gravel that disintigrates in the tank has a smooth new texture.

paint4.jpg
 
As was stated earlier, the key with -any- paint is to let it cure. Make 100% certain that its done all the off gassing that it needs to. If you are still uncertain, make sure you have good new carbon in your filter media. The compounds most likely given off by non-acrylics -should- be pulled in by activated carbon.

Further, should you want to use a non-acrylic for some reason, check the label and look for two things. VOC (volatile organic compounds) content, which should be on the label, and things off this list...acetone, ethane, methane, and anything looking like CFC or HCFC. Acetone is the most likely culprit here. You might find a really low VOC content but then discover that acetone is sky high as acetone is not a VOC and some paint manufacturers will work under EPA paint regs by using it instead. Not disparaging paint manufacturers out there, just something I have seen. If the label isn't clear or understandable, take the paint can up to the service desk and ask to see the MSDS sheet for that product. The guy/gal might look at you funny, but for every product on their shelves, they are required to have an MSDS sheet listing the chemical components of the product, unless those products are trade secrets.
 
Appreciate the information about curing. To be honest, once it was dry to the touch I'd let it bake in the sun for a day or two and figured it was good to go.
 
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