Are Water Changes Actually Necessary?

[platytetrafan]

I do a wc weekly for my betta fish in 3g and 2.5g and every 2 weeks on my 36 gallon and 5g betta tank with a gravel vac. I remove 1/2 of the water on each tank. The reason is to give the fish fresh clean water and to remove fish waste you can't just rely on the filter to do that as alot of fish waste get trapped in the gravel. This works for me and my fish and decreases chance of fish disease.

 

[archer772]

This entire thread is much like the question as to what came first - the chicken or the egg. Ford or Chevy.

I read people demanding facts of others yet supply none in support of their position. When pushed, they reply with "I learned it in school"??? OK, it's time to drop the pettiness and try to have a mature debate. Length of time in the hobby is a moot point. Number of posts is also a moot point as there is no grading system to qualify the accuracy of given posts.

By the standard you use to measure one's answers need to be applied equally to your own. If you wish to demand "facts" in support of an answer, you must be willing to support your position to the same standard. So far that has not been the case. It has been more of a "Do as I say, not as I do" diatribe. - Very petty and immature.

I should not have to provide facts as I am not the one saying that water changes need to done every x number of days and x amount. I see in here that they need to be done because TDS and the hormones given off by the fish so I dont see why I cant ask for proof of this. I know a person that is a marine biologist, chemist and runs an EPA lab and with his reef he only changes water when the chemistry has gone off and that can be annywhere from 1-4 months so he does have some proof at least for HIS tank.

There are many analogies in life that are good examples why water changes in a small body of water like an aquarium is necessary. However the regularity and amount are very subjective depending on allot of factors from bio-load amount and type to what type of filtration you have i.e mechanical, biological, hydroponic purification, reverse osmosis.

So yes you can with enough equipment whether home made or bought come close to replicating nature and greatly lengthen the periods between water changes, but for the most part unless the body of water is huge and in an open environment like a huge lake, water changes in small locked bodies of water (Ponds & Aquariums) are going to need water changes.

My systems allow me to do 50% every 4 weeks in summer and 6 weeks in winter with absolutely no ill effects. In fact too frequent or too great an amount of water changes can also be detrimental when your only source of replacement water is chemically treated and processed by the city which of course requires even more chemicals to correct.

When I first started out chasing toxins and doing water changes every week, fish death seemed to be part of the hobby. Now I almost never lose fish becasue I know and take good care of my water, water-changing when I need it rather then a habit.

Thank you Gunner finally someone that doesnt just follow blindly to what some feel is manditory.

 

[J double R]

I should not have to provide facts as I am not the one saying that water changes need to done every x number of days and x amount. I see in here that they need to be done because TDS and the hormones given off by the fish so I dont see why I cant ask for proof of this. I know a person that is a marine biologist, chemist and runs an EPA lab and with his reef he only changes water when the chemistry has gone off and that can be annywhere from 1-4 months so he does have some proof at least for HIS tank.

Here's the thing. Obviously you have NO grasp of the concept of TDS and other measurable dissolved solids in your tanks. Why don't YOU MEASURE them, and let us know a little more about what is in YOUR water, and perhaps WE could understand why you think you don't need to change your water that often. Of course, a tank with low stock vs. high planting vs. high volume isn't going to need as many water changes nor as high volume of water changes, than a low volume, highly stocked, unplanted tank.

Furthermore, DSB is a little more complex than just "deep substrate" as you claim to have. Do a little research into aerobic and anaerobic bacteria, and then let us know how that goes.

You can't just waltz into here asking for proof of why certain things need to be done certain ways, because the proof is in the VARIABLES. No one tank is going to be identical to the other, outside of scientific experimentation, and chance.

You want proof? Since you are incapable or just plain unwilling of believing the word of any experienced aquarist who you happen to not agree with, here are your options: Research, conduct controlled experiments, and keep reading.

Period.

 

[archer772]

I have one question and that is why is everybody avoiding showing some proof of what they say.
I have been breeding FW fish and no not live bearers for 35 -40 years, I started doing SW and Reefs 20 years ago, I do understand DSB's, remote DSB's, SSB's, BB's, I have been studying lighting for 10+ years, I do understand aerobic and anerobic bacteria.
I was keeping LPS's back in 1990 with good success I had an Elegance coral for 7 years when they were considered to be almost impossible to keep and this was stated by Eric Borneman.
I do like proof because anybody can say you have to do certain things and I will ask again why is it that nobody will show any proof.

Good Bye

 

[archer772]

Oh and yes I do know about TDS as a reefer you need to know these things.

 

[J double R]

I have one question and that is why is everybody avoiding showing some proof of what they say.
I have been breeding FW fish and no not live bearers for 35 -40 years, I started doing SW and Reefs 20 years ago, I do understand DSB's, remote DSB's, SSB's, BB's, I have been studying lighting for 10+ years, I do understand aerobic and anerobic bacteria.
I was keeping LPS's back in 1990 with good success I had an Elegance coral for 7 years when they were considered to be almost impossible to keep and this was stated by Eric Borneman.
I do like proof because anybody can say you have to do certain things and I will ask again why is it that nobody will show any proof.

Good Bye

I'm going to try one more thick-skulled time to explain to you...

You cannot provide FINITE proof of results with exponentially infinite variables. Go ahead.. Calculate every water change interval and volume for every size of tank, type of fish, possible stock level, and THEN maybe you might understand WHY it is not just something you can "prove" because you don't believe what is being said. And in 40 more years when you get to about 10% of total possible calculations, send me an email and I'll look over the results.

I'll even simplify it for you a little more.

Since WE on this WEBSITE cannot possibly know exactly what is in everyone's tank all of the time, the GENERAL advice given (of a certain wc interval with a certain volume) instead blankets a large majority of the newer aquarists, doesnt hurt their setups if done properly, and allows us to help more people in less time.

You claim to be experienced, and given all of the things you just claimed, you probably are. Kudos to you, keep taking care of your tanks the way you feel is right.

 

[archer772]

I'm going to try one more thick-skulled time to explain to you...

You cannot provide FINITE proof of results with exponentially infinite variables. Go ahead.. Calculate every water change interval and volume for every size of tank, type of fish, possible stock level, and THEN maybe you might understand WHY it is not just something you can "prove" because you don't believe what is being said. And in 40 more years when you get to about 10% of total possible calculations, send me an email and I'll look over the results.

I'll even simplify it for you a little more.

Since WE on this WEBSITE cannot possibly know exactly what is in everyone's tank all of the time, the GENERAL advice given (of a certain wc interval with a certain volume) instead blankets a large majority of the newer aquarists, doesnt hurt their setups if done properly, and allows us to help more people in less time.

You claim to be experienced, and given all of the things you just claimed, you probably are. Kudos to you, keep taking care of your tanks the way you feel is right.

OK now I will say thank you for what you just said that not every tank is the same and the blanket statements being posted are NOT written in stone.
I am sorry for some things I might have said that might have upset people but making statements that things have to be done a certain way isnt totally true and I feel that when advice is asked for things should be said " This is how I do it and have good success" or "This is how most people do it" and not you have to do it this way.

 

[J double R]

word.

 

[betta splendens]

I do water changes every week on all of my aquariums. I think it is a good idea to do this, even if they do not need them. Once though, I left a 20 gallon aquarium for over two months without a water change. When I did water tests at the end of the two months, my results were very good. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and amazingly, only 5 ppm of nitrates. The aquarium was very heavily planted and had a two inch substrate.
This is why I feel that both sides of the arguement are correct. Oh and by the way, I did not read through the whole thread. So, if my post is not applicable, please ignore it.

 

[GoldLenny]

Originally Posted by CWO4GUNNER
There are many analogies in life that are good examples why water changes in a small body of water like an aquarium is necessary. However the regularity and amount are very subjective depending on allot of factors from bio-load amount and type to what type of filtration you have i.e mechanical, biological, hydroponic purification, reverse osmosis.

So yes you can with enough equipment whether home made or bought come close to replicating nature and greatly lengthen the periods between water changes, but for the most part unless the body of water is huge and in an open environment like a huge lake, water changes in small locked bodies of water (Ponds & Aquariums) are going to need water changes.

We can't come close to how nature works. We can barely mimic a very small part of how things are done in nature.

For most of Nature's aquariums, it does daily, twice daily or even more frequent water changes.. via rain, melting snow, streams feeding lakes, currents and tides, seasons, climate, etc. Further, it's tanks are vastly understocked compared to ours. Further all of the waters are in direct contact with earth so they get a constant supply of micros and macros leaching into the water. The fish are fed natural foods.

Yes, sometimes, something will go wrong with one of Natures tanks... but that is almost always because man mucked it up.. including but not limited to oil eating microbes that are helping to clean up the Gulf of Mexico down here. There are times when Nature will have one of its aquariums dry up every year, killing off most of the life in the aquarium until the next rainy season, these shrinking waterways were a way to allow the native people in those areas to more easily collect the fish from those shrinking tanks so they could sell them to us.