So I wonder if the op feels like he has met bus drivers?
Because, he is sure getting taking to schoool!
Because, he is sure getting taking to schoool!
Are Water Changes Actually Necessary?
- Thread starter kazvorpal
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may i ask are water changes that stressful to fish and if so is this a bad thing? we are assuming there harm full but what if a little stress is actually good for them. and i also would like to see articals that site your findings and i mean recent ones with in say the last 15 year?
also don't most river and steams have water changes (and not just new water added) when flooding occurs? i mean flood remove silts and other stuff from the emdia area and deposit them other places (often on land) it's one of the reason crops on flood planes do so well "fish poop". admittedly this doesn't happen as often as we do water changes but it is a much bigger amount of water that is constantly being changed any way.
i would also say that most catfish and loaches dont live in there poop really. there are some species that live on the bottoms of lakes where there waist can accumulate but most of the ones that people keep are actually from steams or river where the water turn over rate is pretty high.
also don't most river and steams have water changes (and not just new water added) when flooding occurs? i mean flood remove silts and other stuff from the emdia area and deposit them other places (often on land) it's one of the reason crops on flood planes do so well "fish poop". admittedly this doesn't happen as often as we do water changes but it is a much bigger amount of water that is constantly being changed any way.
i would also say that most catfish and loaches dont live in there poop really. there are some species that live on the bottoms of lakes where there waist can accumulate but most of the ones that people keep are actually from steams or river where the water turn over rate is pretty high.
Many things are stressful to fish, but my fish don't seem to care when I clean my tanks, especially my cichlids. Most of them don't even hide.
I'm starting to like Chef more and more...
I'm starting to like Chef more and more...
There are only 2 bodies of water that I know of that have inlets but no outlets. That would be The Great Salt Lake and The Dead Sea......no fish living in either lake. The GSL does have brine shrimp and bacteria, algae....The Dead Sea - even less.
I read about the first 3 or 4 pages, then flipped to the last page (which is NOT how I read books). I do regular water changes (each tank twice a week), as much because I'm a creature of habit as anything else. However, I will note that I have a heavily planted 3-gallon tank in which I used to house my betta, Travis. (He now has a 5-gallon palace that he shares with a snail and a (currently) beat-up Flame tetra.) In any event, that tank has always run nitrates at zero (also zero ammonia and nitrates). When I had Travis in the tank, the pH was usually about 6.6. Whenever I got lax about water changes, Travis would get fin rot. I'd treat him and he'd improve, then wham! -- if I skipped a water change, the fin rot would start again. I finally realized that I just needed to change his water twice a week. Period -- no exceptions. Still do it and his fins are just fine, thank you very much. I've also noticed on my other tanks that if i get lax about water changes, then stuff happens -- like a sick (or worse yet, dead) fish, cloudy water, fuzzy looking things appear, etc.(you know, just your generally aethetically unappealing crap). I'm no scientist, just a fish mommy. I'm constantly observing what's going on in the tanks. I test all tanks at least once a month, unless I notice something "just ain't right." If that happens, I test immediately, then do a water change whether the test results call for it or not. That's just me. I don't know or even notice if this stresses the fish out. They know my routine and I haven't noticed any of them flapping their fins for me to change, so I won't. Just my 2 cents.
So far, all I have heard from you kazvorpal is a poorly built theory on why water changes aren't necessary until basically the health of the fish is in danger. I feel like you're demanding scientific fact from us on here to back up our reasoning for frequent water changes when all the while, your argument is going no further than the subject of nitrates.
It is obviously more involved in that. I'm not saying that in some instances, your theory won't hold up, but as a general rule to apply to all aspects of aquaria, I think it's very flawed.
My main reason for changing water weekly or bi-weekly is to dilute the waste levels and vacuum up some of the fecal matter. I only lightly gravel vac my planted tanks to avoid removing too many nutrients the plants need.
Aquariums are closed systems that can become like giant toilets if water is not changed. Fish and inverts produce waste, and it isn't going to simply disappear from the aquariums they're kept in. What if you don't have live plants in your tank, or maybe only a few low-light plants? How is the nitrate level taken care of then? If you keep a very light fauna stock level in a densely planted tank, then seldomly performed water changes are ok. But really, what other tank setup can be completely left alone with no maintenance?
I'm wondering if you know what a healthy fish looks like, if you've seen the potential beauty that lies in all fish. I'm thinking there's a possibility that your fish are exhibiting sickly behavior and that you view that behavior as normal. I'm not trying to assume things here about you.
Please give me examples of how I may be wrong. Please humor me and tell me what fish you have, how they behave, if they've ever spawned, how long certain fish of yours have lived before, etc.
I'm asking you all this because I know when i first kept fish, I never changed the water, and I thought that their sickly behavior was normal. I didn't know anything was wrong until my dwarf gourami that I'd had for a year got dropsy.
It is obviously more involved in that. I'm not saying that in some instances, your theory won't hold up, but as a general rule to apply to all aspects of aquaria, I think it's very flawed.
My main reason for changing water weekly or bi-weekly is to dilute the waste levels and vacuum up some of the fecal matter. I only lightly gravel vac my planted tanks to avoid removing too many nutrients the plants need.
Aquariums are closed systems that can become like giant toilets if water is not changed. Fish and inverts produce waste, and it isn't going to simply disappear from the aquariums they're kept in. What if you don't have live plants in your tank, or maybe only a few low-light plants? How is the nitrate level taken care of then? If you keep a very light fauna stock level in a densely planted tank, then seldomly performed water changes are ok. But really, what other tank setup can be completely left alone with no maintenance?
I'm wondering if you know what a healthy fish looks like, if you've seen the potential beauty that lies in all fish. I'm thinking there's a possibility that your fish are exhibiting sickly behavior and that you view that behavior as normal. I'm not trying to assume things here about you.
Please give me examples of how I may be wrong. Please humor me and tell me what fish you have, how they behave, if they've ever spawned, how long certain fish of yours have lived before, etc.
I'm asking you all this because I know when i first kept fish, I never changed the water, and I thought that their sickly behavior was normal. I didn't know anything was wrong until my dwarf gourami that I'd had for a year got dropsy.
1) stop trying to apply saltwater concept to freshwater, protein skimmer on a freshwater tank really? good luck trying to skim anything...
2) water change does stress the fish, anything above 20% weekly is unnecessary. If you find yourself doing more than 20% to remove the high buildup of waste, then you need to fix the source (overstock, overfeeding, inefficient filters, etc..). Some of you doing 50% water changes weekly is out of your mind, unless it's to satisify specific breeding parameters.
3) Do not group heavily planted tank with non-planted freshwater tank. They are two entirely different beast. Non-planted tank water change is mandatory or you WILL get the old tank syndrome -no amount of modern chemicals/filters will help. For heavily planted tank, it is still highly debated but there are many purists who do not change the water, only top off, and able to maintain the tank in excellent condition, plants are the most efficient waste removers/filters. With a heavily planted tank, you are mimicing mother nature closely.
When i had the 50 gallon planted tank in the past, I do a 10% water change every 4 weeks, and have added many fish to it throughout the years without any issues.
Please note: heavily planted does not equal to a tank with a few anubias / java fern...
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