I would have a hard time putting fresh and salt together, even if they PROVED to me that they both would stay alive.
Asia Trip 2009 : Singapore : Aquarama 2009 : GEX : Magical Water
- Thread starter neoprodigy
- Start date
Last time this was posted on here someone brought up a paper from when this was last developed back in the 60's.
It uses complex sugars instead of salt- and somehow fresh and saltwater fish can live in it without problems.
One of the reasons it never took off last time it was launched is that reef fish tend to be a lot more aggressive than tropical freshwater fish- and when you mix the two what you typically ended up with was dead freshwater fish and some alive reef fish.
Reef fish even killed off tropicals much larger than themselves.
It's an interesting idea- although I hate to think how many fish were killed in developing it. My first thought though was... well what about inverts? What about breeding? What about water quality? What about the long term health of the fish? What about plants? What bacteria is used to cycle? Pictures above says stabilizes at ph 7.0... that's low for Salties isn't it?
I think in many ways it is a fantastic idea- and in the right hands can make for some spectacular aquariums. Anyone who says it is unnatural to mix salt and fresh needs to wonder about the lake fish they have mixed with river fish- or the American fish they have mixed with Asians... it's not that much different. None of that is overly NATURAL. (there arn't many fish in the wild surrounded by glass with plastic divers either).
I wonder though- if it exposes delicate marine fish more to the inexperienced beginner freshwater aquarists- and thus we have more dead nemos...
It's a fantastic development... I personally won't take advantage of it- and I hope it isn't abused (and I hope it doesn't compromise fishes health/longevity or well being)- but I really hope it's something generally only available to the experts.
It uses complex sugars instead of salt- and somehow fresh and saltwater fish can live in it without problems.
One of the reasons it never took off last time it was launched is that reef fish tend to be a lot more aggressive than tropical freshwater fish- and when you mix the two what you typically ended up with was dead freshwater fish and some alive reef fish.
Reef fish even killed off tropicals much larger than themselves.
It's an interesting idea- although I hate to think how many fish were killed in developing it. My first thought though was... well what about inverts? What about breeding? What about water quality? What about the long term health of the fish? What about plants? What bacteria is used to cycle? Pictures above says stabilizes at ph 7.0... that's low for Salties isn't it?
I think in many ways it is a fantastic idea- and in the right hands can make for some spectacular aquariums. Anyone who says it is unnatural to mix salt and fresh needs to wonder about the lake fish they have mixed with river fish- or the American fish they have mixed with Asians... it's not that much different. None of that is overly NATURAL. (there arn't many fish in the wild surrounded by glass with plastic divers either).
I wonder though- if it exposes delicate marine fish more to the inexperienced beginner freshwater aquarists- and thus we have more dead nemos...
It's a fantastic development... I personally won't take advantage of it- and I hope it isn't abused (and I hope it doesn't compromise fishes health/longevity or well being)- but I really hope it's something generally only available to the experts.
Dangerdoll
Global Moderator
I don't know what to think... it appears as plants can live in the environment.... and then the whole osmosis part of it.... I just don't understand how it can happen... I wonder about the reef buggers, if they could survive
There are so many things wrong with what they are stating and how it works:
Hormones and cortisol changing gill cell count - even if this was true, what does gill tissue cell count have to do with osmotic pressure control?
Reacts oppositely to control osmotic pressure - So by adding some electrolytes to the water, you are able to reverse the laws of physics? Sorry, but osmotic pressure is osmotic pressure, regardless of the solute.
Magical water seldom affected by ammonia - At lower pH, there is an abundance of H+ ions, which form ammonium ions, a non-toxic ion of ammonia. At pH of 7, ammonia concentrations will be just as toxic, unless there is some endless amount of prime in the "magic water"
Cortisol produced when fish placed in magical water - cortisol is a naturally produced hormone that comes from the adrenal gland. Animals produce it when they are under stress. It enables the body to suppress an immune response in high-stress situations as a survival mechanism...think fight or flight. Similar to the affects of adrenaline. So, sure, if you stress the fish out badly enough, it will produce cortisol, enabling it to ignore the physical and chemical results of the stressful situation, presumably enabling the fish to survive long enough to make it to more suitable conditions. The problem is, this is not an indefinite stasis in the body...eventually there will be a tipping point.
Anything claiming that causing undue stress is a great way to invoke a survival method, which enables keeping animals in completely improper conditions...well lets just say its not for me.
Hormones and cortisol changing gill cell count - even if this was true, what does gill tissue cell count have to do with osmotic pressure control?
Reacts oppositely to control osmotic pressure - So by adding some electrolytes to the water, you are able to reverse the laws of physics? Sorry, but osmotic pressure is osmotic pressure, regardless of the solute.
Magical water seldom affected by ammonia - At lower pH, there is an abundance of H+ ions, which form ammonium ions, a non-toxic ion of ammonia. At pH of 7, ammonia concentrations will be just as toxic, unless there is some endless amount of prime in the "magic water"
Cortisol produced when fish placed in magical water - cortisol is a naturally produced hormone that comes from the adrenal gland. Animals produce it when they are under stress. It enables the body to suppress an immune response in high-stress situations as a survival mechanism...think fight or flight. Similar to the affects of adrenaline. So, sure, if you stress the fish out badly enough, it will produce cortisol, enabling it to ignore the physical and chemical results of the stressful situation, presumably enabling the fish to survive long enough to make it to more suitable conditions. The problem is, this is not an indefinite stasis in the body...eventually there will be a tipping point.
Anything claiming that causing undue stress is a great way to invoke a survival method, which enables keeping animals in completely improper conditions...well lets just say its not for me.
Clever, but Im not very sure about it. Id be weary of using it due tot he fact that SW and FW fish have different habitats, diets, aggression levels, and requirements. I can just imagine someone sticking cichlids and mandarin fish together; IMO it just seems like a bad idea.
Now let's talk about keeping cold water fish w/ tropicals...
I wonder if mollies can survive in this stuff.
If there's a bunch of sugar alcohols in it, that may put the osmotic pressure issues in check for the FW fish while encouraging the salties to eliminate excess water (mannitol=diuretic).
I wonder if mollies can survive in this stuff.
If there's a bunch of sugar alcohols in it, that may put the osmotic pressure issues in check for the FW fish while encouraging the salties to eliminate excess water (mannitol=diuretic).
this stuff is just wrong, it obviously isnt healthy for the fish if people can get those "nemos" for thier fish bowls and sell each fish at approx $20 imagine the profits for them.
