Bad water test results . . .
- Thread starter tayhudson
- Start date
imo this ^is incorrect, what will the salt do, and fish dont suddenly dump more, feeding should also be watched never over feed.
carpenter547
The Desert Punk
here is my information 
first off yes fish do suddenly dump more it is normally the end result of constapation. also changes in salinity cause fish to "drink" more or "drink" less as they osmoregulatory needs change. also increases in feeding and stress cause more amonia to be released. so it happens enough for me to feel safe hazarding a guess that it could have happened
now for the nitrIte and salt absorbtion i will patch you through to a very well written peice on this
http://lyretailsaquarium.com/Biochemistry101/SaltToDetoxNitrite.html rather in depth about useing salt to combat nitrIte poisoning specifically.
http://lyretailsaquarium.com/Biochemistry101/Controlling Ammonia Nitrite.html general overview for the op.
first off yes fish do suddenly dump more it is normally the end result of constapation. also changes in salinity cause fish to "drink" more or "drink" less as they osmoregulatory needs change. also increases in feeding and stress cause more amonia to be released. so it happens enough for me to feel safe hazarding a guess that it could have happened
now for the nitrIte and salt absorbtion i will patch you through to a very well written peice on this
http://lyretailsaquarium.com/Biochemistry101/SaltToDetoxNitrite.html rather in depth about useing salt to combat nitrIte poisoning specifically.
http://lyretailsaquarium.com/Biochemistry101/Controlling Ammonia Nitrite.html general overview for the op.
A fish should never suddenly release enough ammonia in a cycled tank to bring the nitrites to 5.0 ppm. You might see a slight reading, but not significant, even if a few fish are added or more food is being given. Once you get a certain amount of bacteria colonizing your filters they will multiply and remove nitrites and ammonia fairly quickly. This is why you can "quick cycle" aquariums by adding established media, even in small amounts, to new uncultured media, though oxygenation, temperature and pH, among a few other factors, will effect how quickly your new media is colonized.
The only way you would see such a rise in nitrites is if the tank was never cycled or there is not enough media to house sufficient bacterial colonies, or if something with the water chemistry is impeding the bacterial growth/function. (I don't see the latter as the case if the pH has always been stable).
Most likely this tank does not have enough media to grow sufficient bacterial colonies. The fact that the ammonia has always been above .25 indicates this (given sufficient media it should have always been 0), and if you have always had nitrites either you're severely lacking enough biomedia, somehow killing it repeatedly, or the tank was never fully cycled.
What kind filtration is on the tank and how much/what type of media do you have? Do you ever remove the media and replace or "clean" it, and how often? I can pretty much guarantee that the filtration on this tank needs to be upgraded and/or more biological media added. Once you add more media the issue should be resolved fairly quickly as the bacteria on the cultured media colonizes the new media.
For now you need to do several water changes to remove the nitrites and get them down around .25 or less.
The only way you would see such a rise in nitrites is if the tank was never cycled or there is not enough media to house sufficient bacterial colonies, or if something with the water chemistry is impeding the bacterial growth/function. (I don't see the latter as the case if the pH has always been stable).
Most likely this tank does not have enough media to grow sufficient bacterial colonies. The fact that the ammonia has always been above .25 indicates this (given sufficient media it should have always been 0), and if you have always had nitrites either you're severely lacking enough biomedia, somehow killing it repeatedly, or the tank was never fully cycled.
What kind filtration is on the tank and how much/what type of media do you have? Do you ever remove the media and replace or "clean" it, and how often? I can pretty much guarantee that the filtration on this tank needs to be upgraded and/or more biological media added. Once you add more media the issue should be resolved fairly quickly as the bacteria on the cultured media colonizes the new media.
For now you need to do several water changes to remove the nitrites and get them down around .25 or less.
Last edited:
really?
no need for salt. just need to make sure to do water changes until your bacteria can handle the fishload.
what size tank is this and what is stocked in it?
You can add Prime brand dechlorinator btw to detoxify nitrites and ammonia as a quick fix until you can remove it all with water changes.
carpenter547
The Desert Punk
hi i am terribly sorry about this.
http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/Prime.doc.pdf the main ingredients in prime are listed as hydrosulfite salts.
the reason i am on this is i was not a good student in highschool and my job is building houses not chemestry so when i am reading all the water chemestry info i get a tad lost and start looking for cliff notes. according to the cliff notes i have gotten including bugging the author directly of the article i linked to is that the salt diffuses into the blood and draws in the water and helps to displace the nitrItes in the fishes blood *similar to how brackish water contains less oxygen due to salt saturation in water*
also i have heard that useing products that "lock up" or "remove" amonnia and nitrItes durring the cycle doesn't help much as it just delays thier release *in the case of locking away* or removes too much food for the benificial bacteria *in the case of removing* which prolongs or stalls out the cycle. and in the case of using materials that lock up amonia/nitrItes can actually cause unidentifiable spikes in those compounds latter on as they leach back into the system.
of course this isn't argumentative i am just trying to get the facts straight
ps if you reply to this don't be afraid to use a big red crayon for me i won't be off-ended :rofl:
http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/Prime.doc.pdf the main ingredients in prime are listed as hydrosulfite salts.
the reason i am on this is i was not a good student in highschool and my job is building houses not chemestry so when i am reading all the water chemestry info i get a tad lost and start looking for cliff notes. according to the cliff notes i have gotten including bugging the author directly of the article i linked to is that the salt diffuses into the blood and draws in the water and helps to displace the nitrItes in the fishes blood *similar to how brackish water contains less oxygen due to salt saturation in water*
also i have heard that useing products that "lock up" or "remove" amonnia and nitrItes durring the cycle doesn't help much as it just delays thier release *in the case of locking away* or removes too much food for the benificial bacteria *in the case of removing* which prolongs or stalls out the cycle. and in the case of using materials that lock up amonia/nitrItes can actually cause unidentifiable spikes in those compounds latter on as they leach back into the system.
of course this isn't argumentative i am just trying to get the facts straight
ps if you reply to this don't be afraid to use a big red crayon for me
i won't be off-ended :rofl:
Wow guys. Lol.
So to answer some of those many questions, I have a 40 gallon breeder. Stocked with 1 green sev, 2 German blue rams, 1 Plecostomus, and 3 pygmy Cories.
I have a Marineland Penguin BIO-Wheel filter. Model 200, for up to 50 gallons. Maybe I should get the next one up then??
4 days ago when I did wc and vacuum I added sale because a loach I had in the tank picked off some scales on my sev and I was treating that. I added what the box said, 5tbsp per 5 us gallons. And that's what people on here said.
The problem I'm running in to, and have been since I started this hobby is that everyone has their "own opinion." And having so many opinions that are different isn't really making it better. I know what the readings should be. I have common sense and I read pretty much every day about this, fish, tanks and all. I appreciate all the help, but I'll probably have to give this up for a while. To get it "right" eventually.
So to answer some of those many questions, I have a 40 gallon breeder. Stocked with 1 green sev, 2 German blue rams, 1 Plecostomus, and 3 pygmy Cories.
I have a Marineland Penguin BIO-Wheel filter. Model 200, for up to 50 gallons. Maybe I should get the next one up then??
4 days ago when I did wc and vacuum I added sale because a loach I had in the tank picked off some scales on my sev and I was treating that. I added what the box said, 5tbsp per 5 us gallons. And that's what people on here said.
The problem I'm running in to, and have been since I started this hobby is that everyone has their "own opinion." And having so many opinions that are different isn't really making it better. I know what the readings should be. I have common sense and I read pretty much every day about this, fish, tanks and all. I appreciate all the help, but I'll probably have to give this up for a while. To get it "right" eventually.
That only applies to medias such as zeolite that completely absorb the ammonia, or chemicals that convert it to something the bacteria are not able to consume.
Prime binds and detoxifies the ammonia and nitrite, it does not remove it. It is still available for the biological bacteria to consume, as stated on their own website. Prime is safe to use during cycling, and many of us have used it for that purpose without detriment to the cycle.
Salt does not cause freshwater fish to draw in water. Freshwater fish naturally absorb salt and expel water. Marine fish are the opposite, they are built to excrete salt and absorb fresh water in a high salinity environment.
When you talk about adding salt (usually sodium chloride) to combat nitrite poisoning, it is the chloride, not the sodium, that has the desired effect.
When chloride is present in significant enough amounts compared to nitrite, the gills absorb the chloride ion over the nitrite ion, thus the nitrite is not as readily absorbed.
