I was wondering if the Berlin system (live rock & sand) works in a freshwater system. Any help?
Thanks in advance,
Thanks in advance,
Berlin system for freshwater tank?
- Thread starter Wedge
- Start date
no..the sand is fine..but the live rock is saltwater..I think...we may need someone else to help confirm it.
I know little about saltwater systems, but I believe the Berlin system essentially relies on a DSB (deep sand bed) and liverock for biofiltration.. no conventional filter (with media in it) is used.
Something like that can be done in freshwater systems. Rather than using a DSB and liverock, all you would need are plants and lighting. The plants would essentially be your biofiltration. You would just need a couple of powerheads for water movement. Keep in mind, if you go this way, you would need to stock quite lightly.
HTH
-Richer
Something like that can be done in freshwater systems. Rather than using a DSB and liverock, all you would need are plants and lighting. The plants would essentially be your biofiltration. You would just need a couple of powerheads for water movement. Keep in mind, if you go this way, you would need to stock quite lightly.
HTH
-Richer
Freshwater substrates are as live as can be. That's why you don't want them too rich and too deep. As Richer says, plants are your biofilter. Every surface is "live" with biofilm.
Freshwater invertebrates aren't as colorful or large...
Freshwater invertebrates aren't as colorful or large...
the actualy idea of the berlin system is for it to be inexpensive and natural...and the freshwater equivilent would, as said, be plants. vallis would probably be your best option...they purify water better than any other plant, are easy to grow and propogate, and look great. berlin systems these days do, in fact, also contain filtration. but the idea is to keep costs and technology to a minimum.
Thank you for the various replies. However, I am still unsure of what/how to set up a berlin system for a freshwater tank. All the research I have done so far leads me to believe that no one really has any idea and my only bet is simple trial and error. Pull some rocks w/ moss out of a stream or pond, plant some Valis, let it settle for a few days, add some fish, and see what happens. I also understand the a biofilm will eventually cover everything (up to the level the nutrients will support bacteria, etc.) but how long does this take? What sort of bio-load can this accomodate?
Has anyone actually done this?
If not, I think I will best leave the experimenting for later and go with the regular wet/dry system.
Thanks,
Wedge
Has anyone actually done this?
If not, I think I will best leave the experimenting for later and go with the regular wet/dry system.
Thanks,
Wedge
If you're talking about filterless f/w aquaria, a n oft-referenced work on the subject is Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, by Diana Walstad.
Her method appears to be low stocking, circulation, and garden soil under the gravel. Debate no doubt rages over the value of her work, but there you go.
Her method appears to be low stocking, circulation, and garden soil under the gravel. Debate no doubt rages over the value of her work, but there you go.
i do not know of a berlin system ever being practised for freshwater aquaria before. faramir is right where low stocking is concerned. you would have to carry out frequent water changes, and substrate i would reckon should be at least 2ins deep. this could be sand, laterite (or flurorite), peat or gravel - i think really it would be down to personal preferance and which you think would work best, as there is very little to base ideas for such a set up on.
The Berlin system relies on heavy protein skimming, intense lighting, and live rock.
No sand or gravel bed.
Berlin systems have been deemed ok for SW setups, but despite the low stocking there have always been problems with NO3 buildup in the tanks.
That led to the Monaco system with the deep sand beds, either with or without a plenum. These systems are the most common in the SW community, and rarely do you see any NO3 in the water.
Regardless, neither setup has a large biocapacity. They both rely on low stocking levels to remain effective.
In FW tanks, the equivelent of a berlin system would be a substrate less tank with plants or algae growing.
The Monaco system would rely on a plenum under a sand bed, and the plants or algae.
Regardless, a more effective FW system would be a large capacity filter such as a canister, a FBF, or a wet/dry. To deal with the NO3 accumulation you would need to have either a planted tank, or do large water changes (an automated water changing system is your best friend
)
HTH
No sand or gravel bed.
Berlin systems have been deemed ok for SW setups, but despite the low stocking there have always been problems with NO3 buildup in the tanks.
That led to the Monaco system with the deep sand beds, either with or without a plenum. These systems are the most common in the SW community, and rarely do you see any NO3 in the water.
Regardless, neither setup has a large biocapacity. They both rely on low stocking levels to remain effective.
In FW tanks, the equivelent of a berlin system would be a substrate less tank with plants or algae growing.
The Monaco system would rely on a plenum under a sand bed, and the plants or algae.
Regardless, a more effective FW system would be a large capacity filter such as a canister, a FBF, or a wet/dry. To deal with the NO3 accumulation you would need to have either a planted tank, or do large water changes (an automated water changing system is your best friend
)HTH
Ms. Waldstad does not approve of water changes at all. Nor of filters or artificial light. She does use circulation.
Plenums do not require plants to denitrify. But IMHO, a planted tank or refugium will be heathier and more stable than an unplanted one.
Plenums do not require plants to denitrify. But IMHO, a planted tank or refugium will be heathier and more stable than an unplanted one.