Betta has popeye - treatment questions

I almost lost him last night. It was so awful and bizarre.

When I got home he seemed the same as the day before. I gave him 1 medicated pellet and started dinner. I thought I'd change his water before eating. I had half the water out and was in the process of pouring in the new water, didn't even have the BR in there yet. Suddenly he started darting about and then he went nose first into the gravel and went completely vertical. After a few minutes he turned over on his side and wasn't moving at all. Just when I was sure he died, he started to move with a lot of effort and headed for the surface like he was struggling. It looked like just like fish videos I've seen of swim bladder disease. His belly looked bulged out too. I remembered the Epsom salt thing, and figuring he was about to die anyway, I thought I would try it. I eased him into a small, clear Tupperware container with a bit of Epsom salts. A few times I was sure he was dying, then he would get some air and sink again. I periodically added warm water so he'd stay at the same temp. By some miracle, he gradually started to move around and look more alert. Later I eased him back into the tank. He swam okay but was lethargic looking and stayed at the bottom. I dropped in some pea which he did eat. By then it was 10:00 and I hadn't even eaten yet.

This morning he is still swimming okay but still lethargic. He was midway up and just hanging there. I think his belly has gone down but I couldn't stick around this morning to really observe him. I hate that I have to run off to work, but I also think he could use the quiet time without me messing with him.

I don't know what happened. One minute he was fine, the next he was nose first in the gravel and then practically dead. It happened when I was adding the water. I never pour the water on him or make a big splash. Normally he loves when I add water and likes to swim under the current. So I can't imagine that it stressed him out or anything. It was so bizarre.

Wish my news was better, but at least he's still hanging in there. I honestly thought I'd be on here today telling you all that he died. It was that bad. He is definitely a fighter. I'm at work now, on my lunch hour, and will try to keep you updated that way. I'm finding it hard to get on the computer at night after all my vet chores. (I'm also nursing a 6-year-old guinea pig.) So I apologize for leaving you hanging.
 
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oh dear! i hope he pulls through! if it is swim bladder then maybe not feeding him for a day or two might help, since constipation can make swim bladder problems worse.

although you are gentle with adding water back into the tank, maybe try adding it back in with a piece of airline for now instead? that'd make things even more gentle for him. just elevate the container of new water above his tank somehow and siphon the new water in.
 
God!! How scary!

BFM: I know next to nothing about BR so this may be a stupid question. Is it possible that the difference in water chemistry from the tank full of BP, and then the clear water entering could've caused that reaction/response? Or is it like most meds and is pretty much cleared or inactive from/in the water column by the time she did the water change anyhow?

My experience with swim bladder disease doesn't sound like that. The sort of panicked darting then going way still sounds like something else.

Couple of questions that probably mean nothing: How hard did he hit his face into the gravel when he panicked? Was he definitely awake when you started the water change?

And most important of all: How is he now?
 
i really feel like your poor betta was stressed and then had a whole bunch of different meds thrown at him which is causing more stress.

I would go back to the beginning. Does he have any OBVIOUS signs of disease (discoloration, visible parasites, etc)?

If not, back off on all those meds. I think alot of people forget quickly how stressful meds can be. As this is your ONLY fish and you have had him for 6 months, i think its SUPER unlikely he had parasites or most of the common diseases. The poop you were talking about can also be intestinal sloughing from stress.

While there was TONS of good advice in this thread, in such a small water volume all these things can just compile to add more and more stress to a fish already not feeling well.

I would advise to stop meds, keep up with the water changes (being very careful to temp match, etc) and go back to observation to figure out what you are dealing with as so far it sounds like you have treated for a HUGE range of stuff. Meds can be very toxic to a stressed fish and he might just need some TLC.

Also, garlic is a good additive to any diet <to adress previous questions>. Its the allicin in garlic which is helpful. Any form of garlic can be used, with the oil being the most potent (from my understanding). While its not a reliable treatment on its own, its been proven through multiple studies that if fed for a few weeks at a specific concentration (I think its 3% but don't quote me on that) it will change the pH of the gut, making it inhospitable to parasites.

One other thing I wanted to mention about your bettas poo, you fed peas. That will make the poo look very different from what it would normally on his diet of pellets and krill.
 
Hi all, and thanks msjinkzd for chiming in. He's okay tonight. About the same as he was before the incident. He's swimming around but still spends a lot of time suspended in midtank or resting. I too think maybe he got stressed. Even though he never minded the water changes before, maybe with all the meds and everything it was just too much for him. However, I can say for certainty that his stomach was very bulged out. It is normal today. As I pretty much wasted the last dose of Betta Revive anyway, I'll just keep up with water changes for now. I didn't do one tonight though because I changed so much last night and he's still very skittish when he sees me. He really needs some peace tonight. Will keep you posted, and thanks to all of you!
 
i would feed him lightly and really just observe. He truly sounds like a massively stressed fihs, which in and of itself certainly can be fatal. Please post if you have time in the morning and let us know how he is.

This is a good reminder though how dangerous it can be to medicate without any sort of real diagnosis. I don'tknow about you, but i have felt HORRIBLE from antibiotics and other medications.
 
Of course though, Chickadee shouldn't feel guilty here, either. She was doing what she thought was best for this fish and what she understood she was supposed to as far as tank maintenance because of the meds. She was doing what she felt would save him.

A tough way to learn how rough meds are on these guys, but I'm sure she does indeed know it now, you bet.
 
Chickadee, you are gaining a wealth of knowledge as well. Lets hope your fin friend pulls through just fine!

If you haven't run carbon to remove the meds, it would probably be a good idea. I would leave the tank alone unless you suspect some sort of parameter spike (which can happen from using antibiotics, despite what the packaging says).
Please please keep us posted on how he is doing.
 
OMG! I'm so sorry that Sparky was so much worse. I've been gone all day long and haven't been able to check in on him.

I don't doubt that you may be right about Sparky, Jinkzy, but Chickadee really hasn't hit Sparky with a barrage of meds.

She did dose him with Maracyn Plus on the 26th and then on the 28th at which time he had a bad reaction and didn't dose him again. At this point she posted here for help.

From that point on she only water changes daily, as BFM recommended, but after five days of this, on Feb the 2nd, she posted that he was worse again. He hadn't had an antibiotic for five days at this point.

Because he was worse, I recommended using Jungle Labs Antibacterial medicated food, which she did start, and then when the Betta Revive came in she started using that, with plans to use BR only for three or four days.

It doesn't seem like enough med to cause this kind of reaction, especially since he was doing so much better just prior to the water change.

The way he reacted when the water poured in was almost like the time when I had fogotten to add dechlorinator to some replacement water. It sounds so much like some kind of problem with the replacement water.

I know you are careful, Chickadee, matching the temperature, but I think I remember you also use either RO water or bottled water, (can't remember which), with the tap water to reduce the ph, or am I thinking of another thread, please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Could it be a water chemistry issue? The reaction seemed to me to be pointing to some kind of immediate reaction to the water itself.

I don't like to throw meds at fish, myself, but Chickadee went five days doing nothing more than water changes and observation and he was getting worse again.

I know that daily water changes are a common practice to help a stressed/sick fish get better, I've done that myself quite often so I can't see that the water changes should be harmful.

You indicate that he has always enjoyed water changes, though I know not every Betta likes that. Saje's Betta seemed to dread it when she was treating her Betta.

The Jungle Labs Antibacterial food is pretty mild and so is Betta Revive, which she had used I guess going on three days, and BR is normally praised by Betta keepers as almost a miracle tonic, improving well being in almost every case I've seen and heard about. ( though not a cure for very many ailments it almost always seems to ameliorate the symptoms and make the fish feel better )

I'm not disputing Rachel's theory, just trying to figure this out. The initial symptom/signs of Popeye and then the relapsing symptoms of illness seem to me to point to more than just stress.

I defer, however, to Rachel's expertise:); she has treated hundreds if not thousands more fish than I have.

I do think that vigilence is warranted, and rest and clean water and observation at this point is called for, for poor Sparky, and I'm sorry if my advice has made him worse.

ADDENDUM: Please overlook typos, sentence fragments and spelling errors, I didn't take time to reread this post.
 
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