Beyond frustrated - tank won't re-cycle

[LMOUTHBASS]

I posted about 3 weeks ago that while taking gravel out of my tank I ended up changing 100% of the water while I kept refilling the tank to clear all the gunk and debris.

I know I lost a lot of bacteria in the process and I knew it was a bad idea, it just sort of happened during the cleaning process.

An ammonia spike ensured, which I expected. I since also switched to a great canister filter because my old filter was junk and falling apart. I did squeeze junk and rub my old media onto the media in the canister but I don't know how effective that was.

Anyhow, since then ammonia has been persistent in my tank. I've tried doing daily 20-30% water changes, every other day 50% water changes... etc, etc, etc and nothing is working.

I've dumped bottled bacteria in there several times, such as "Nite-Out" and nothing is working. Ammonia is staying at .50, oddly today it went up to 1.0 the day after a 50% water change.

I even went about a week without feeding the fish.

Nothing seems to be working to reestablish a beneficial bacterial colony. I'm extremely aggravated and the only thing keeping the tank from going to hell is tons of Prime, double doses or more and endless water changes.

I can't keep doing this everyday. Tank is 55 gallon and its getting tough and aggravating to everyone else in the house when I keep blowing through gallons of water....

My question is... what gives? Why aren't the bacteria recolonizing? I know a cycle can take up to 6 weeks in new tanks, but I left some gravel in the tank there should have been enough left in there to recolonize, plus I squeezed gunk from my old media in there too... and I left all the fake plants alone, so there should've been at least a little bit of bacteria attached to those.

Even odder, one night I got like a .50 nitrite spike which I thought was good, because it was an indication of cycling, but then after a water change that went away and there has been no nitrite since.

Today Ammonia 1.0, Nitrite/Nitrates 0.

I'm tempted to just dump entire bottles of bacteria into the tank at this point. You can't overdose on that stuff right? I honestly don't even think it works.

I need help. I'm at the end of my rope.

 

[thebrandon]

You are going to have to be more patient. Cycling is different for every tank. Re-cycling can even be a totally different experience than what you had before.

I would suggest finding a friend, another tank, or a pet shop and ask to have some filter media. Put this in your current filter and you should notice changes much faster. How ever you have to be very cautious doing this and take the media from a trusted and reliable source. You don't want to cycle the tank and introduce a disease or parasite.

 

[oo7genie]

The filter media squeeze doesn't do much for you. The bacteria live primarily on surfaces, not in the water.

Bottled bacteria is just a gimmick, aside from a couple of types that use bio-spira, and even then there's debate about the effectiveness of the newer products that claim to use it. "Nite-Out" sounds like a nitrite/nitrate reducer primarily. I wouldn't expect it to actually speed up a cycle.

If you removed your gravel, you likely killed of the BB that you had built up on it. Gravel also doesn't grow nearly as much BB as the filter media does, so leaving a small amount, while it is usually helpful, isn't a guarantee that the cycle will just spring back. But it may still shorten your cycle time.

Anytime you replace all the water, do a deep tank cleaning, and change a tank filter all at the same time, you're eliminating nearly every surface that has BB on it. Therefore, you're likely to have to go through the entire cycling process again.

If you honestly feel that you "can't keep doing" water changes, you're left with 2 choices. Risk losing fish to toxic water conditions, or get rid of the tank. Cycling takes patience, and when there's already fish in the tank, it takes dilligence with your water change routine.

The only other thing I can suggest as far as speeding up your cycle is concerned, is to find someone else with a canister filter and a cycled tank, and see if they'll let you borrow some of their bio-media to put directly into your filter. Just beware that doing this exposes your tank to any parasites, disease, etc. that may be in their tank, so you need to be able to trust your source. Even this will take time to increase the size of the BB colony, and the water changes will still be necessary until the cycle completes.

Patience, young Skywalker. You can't develop the force overnight!

 

[LMOUTHBASS]

I wish I had a reliable source to borrow some media from. Unfortunately, its not an option. I don't have any friends with tanks. None of the LFS in my area would have the media I would need, primarily because I wouldn't trust it. Not that they have unhealthy fish, but because new fish are constantly coming and going through their tanks its too risky.

Where do beneficial bacteria originate from? I never quite understood that aspect of it. When a new tank is set up, how does the bacteria get started? Besides using a gimmick bottle of the stuff or getting some from an established tank... I'm sure it doesn't just miraculously appear.

All the non stop water changes are going to create a $$$ water bill on top of the Prime. I've got too much time and $ invested in the tank, and I care too much about the fish to simply break it down and/or let them die.

In the meantime, I've installed a serious bubble wand to maximize aeration along with constant doses of prime to detoxify ammonia, the goal being to provide as much oxygen as possible.

The fish, for the most part seem to be doing well. Behaving normally, no gasping, superior filtration and massive oxygen being provided. I'm doing everything I can, I just need the freaking bacteria to get going already.

I'll do another 50% change tomorrow. Its such a pain in the *** because I can't use a Python either because of the type of faucet we have so I'm lugging buckets of water around. Honestly, this blows. I'm so aggravated.

 

[thebrandon]

It sort of does just magically appear. It's a natural process. Stay away from chemicals and additives. You are only slowing things down. Keep up on your water changes. Since you restarted the cycle, and have fish in the tank it can take a long time, especially since you've been adding other junk to try and stabilize things.

 

[Fozzybear]

Hold on guys...idk if I'm reading too fast but the Prime may be the problem here. The double dose locks up the ammo, that means it locks it from the BB as well. You've got to stop dosing prime and just keep the PPM of ammo down with WCs, assuming you're not overstocked 2 a day 25%s or maybe 1 40-50% should hold you per day. But you've got to let that ammo just float in the system unlocked [EDIT: and in appropriate concentrations which are controlled with WCs] to get the BB running. Also, try to get some live media from a friend or LFS, there are allot of east coasters on this forum and I'm sure you could find some media within a couple hours drive from you. Make sure any media you get from an LFS is nice and clean of course (i.e. not media from petco's one canister...the diseases will kill your fish like....now). But correct me if I'm wrong here guys, I'd guess that the locked ammo may be the problem here, I've moved lots of stuff around in tanks and even got stain in my wife's 20g and did running WCs with a siphon out and hose from the sink in and had the cycle running again in a matter of days (of course the livestock went in QTs etc around the house). Remember BB can double their population in 24 hours in the right environment as far as my understanding goes.

 

[tanker]

You got some good info from Fuzzy and 007. You just have to be patient.

What is your PH, good BB grow better at higher PH, but ammonia is more toxic then too.

 

[Rbishop]

Prime does not lock up the ammonia for the BB...the BB can still "access" it as a food source...

 

[stephcps]

Agree with most of what has been said. You essentilally started a cycle from scratch by removing your gravel and your cycled filter. The 100% water change had little to do with it. Is this your only tank? There are places on line...angelsplus being one that will sell their cycled media.
Otherwise, you are doing a fish-in cycle. Daily water changes and parameter checks. I agree with RB....the prime does not "lock" down the ammonia. The cycle will proceed. Otherwise anyone who uses prime would never have a cycled tank.

 

[fermentedhiker]

One thing to remember about Prime and similar products is that they mess up Ammonia test readings. You'll need to invest in a higher end test kit that distinguishes between ammonia and ammonium to be able to trust what you're getting.