Black Moor - swim bladder disease?

[jack_d12]

Hello all,

My dad passed away last November and he had a few fancy goldfish left in a 20 gallon tank with a millenium 3000 filter. Well we didn't know how to take care of them except feeding them daily. Slowly they all died except for a single black moor. the millenium 3000 filter broke down... impeller spins and there is motor noise but doesn't suck any thing up the siphon .... I bought another aqua-tech 20-40 from wal-mart and using that now.

I start reading these discussions and find out about ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels and water changing and started changing water on tuesday 2 gallons, then wednesday 2 gallons, and then friday 2 gallons... next would be on sunday, before doing the research I did a full tank water change once a month.... i know this probably lead to the other fishes dying ....

The reason i did the research is because the Black moor is now swimming upside down but not really floating to the top so I am not sure if it is swim bladder disease or not, he's the only one left and i don't want him to die... so I didn't feed him on friday and gave him green peas this morning hoping it would help, but he's still swimming like the video below.

I'll get a ammonia test kit today and I'm waiting for my gravel vacuum to get here but i'm just amazed my dad didn't need any of these things to get the gold fish to those size (he had a lionhead, fantail and some other fishes in there). I also read online that you need +10 gallon for every fish you put in a 20 gallon tank, well he had at least 5 fish all those sizes in a 20 gallon tank and they were all healthy .. of course till he passed ....

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[Somervell]

The moor appears to be pineconing in the second picture. Are the scales sticking out from the sides like a pinecone? If so, it may be Dropsy. I'm hoping it's just the picture. There are many posts on Dropsy, but basically, it is a sign of internal organs not functioning properly and is usually ( but not always) fatal. It can be treated with certain medications with some success, and there are people on this forum who report regularly that they have success with pineconing fish. You will know if a fish is pineconing because when viewed from the top, the scales are sticking out from the body like a pinecone.

Moors are very prone to swim bladder disorders ( as are most fancies.) You did the right thing with the pea treatment if this is the case. Although it looks horrible, goldfish can live a long time with swim bladder disease, and often it will correct itself with the proper diet. (See Lupin's post on goldfish for more info.) Please do check the water parameters. Erratic swimming can be a sign of water quality issues, like high ammonia levels.

You are correct that fancies require a minimum of 10 gallons each, with 15 being even better. You water changes now sound like a much better plan. Hopefully your Moor will pull through, and I am thinking good thoughts for you and your fish.

 

[kelly82]

personally, if i had tried the peas thing, and that didnt work, i would be considering euthanasia as i couldnt bare to see 1 of my fish scraping its face around in the gravel like that. maybe you could go bare bottom so it wont damage its eyes etc on the rough gravel. hope he/she pulls through.

 

[Lupin]

:welcome: to AC, Jack!

I am so sorry for the delay of responses. I wish you could have posted this thread here in Coldwater Illnesses and Diseases forum so every goldfish member here could immediately respond to your cause.

I just saw the video. Both Annie (Somervell) and Kelly have valid points. I'll try to break it down for you what you need to do.

The most important question here is where are you located? We would like to know this so we can immediately recommend some essentials that you will need depending on where you are located.

Get API liquid test kit first and do it ASAP! Please post here your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Do NOT rely on test strips to do the job for you. Test strips are grossly inaccurate.

Secondly, do you use dechlorinator? Please try to switch whatever dechlorinator you have to Prime! Prime will be able to detoxify ammonia and nitrite temporarily. Be sure you do water changes as much as 80%. After that, use Prime and then add a teaspoon per gallon of salt to ensure that nitrite is immediately disabled assuming it is present there in high levels. Nitrite is a toxic substance so salt and Prime combined should disable it temporarily. Kosher salt, pickling salt, "aquarium" salt, iodized table salt or rock salt will work wonders. Make sure you use sodium chloride. AVOID salt that contains yellow prussiate or ferrous cyanide!

Please start reducing all your substrate. Leave a cup of it in a nylon bag and tie the nylon bag to seal it up. Leave the nylon bag of gravel in your filter or the corner of your tank. This will minimize cycle bumps. Start removing all your decorations as well. Those are so abrasive to accident-prone goldfish.

How is the fish doing right now?
What do you normally feed the fish? How often?
How often do you clean the filter?

 

[jack_d12]

Hello and thanks for all the replies,

The black moor is doing about the same, he's been eating the peas I give him about once or twice a day. His poop was green before (i guess due to the peas) but yesterday while changing the water, I noticed his poop turned black. I started doing daily 10% water changes and started giving him maracyn 2 on sunday. Can I put in epsom salt with the maracyn 2? I was not sure I could mix salt and medicine. Also the epsom salt i have is regular pharmacy epsom salt in a milk carton container is this the correct type?

I was able to fix the millenium 3000 by super glueing the impeller back together (the fin part and the magnet was seperated) so i started using that and took out the aquatech 20-40. I think the millenium 3000 has better flow anyways. I put in new filter media with carbon since the old ones were dried and cleaned and had no carbon.

I only have an ammonia test kit and it was reading .25 for the past 3 days even when changing water daily. It is a liquid drop test, not sure of the brand. Maybe I should do more then 10% wc?

I was wondering about taking out the gravel and the rock decoration, i'll do that when i get home from work.

I am located in Hawaii and it's not really easy finding all these chemicals. There is a petco that is relatively far. THe local shops don't carry as many types of chemicals (I had to go to a few shops just to find the ammonia test, they had a lot of PH, Nitrate, Nitrite test though)

Thanks again for all the help!!!

 

[Troycool]

my fish had this problem...I fasted her for a few day an then fed her peas..she was better very soon

 

[kelly82]

good call on removing the decor, shes obviously still got some directional skills to be eating ok. good luck with her, fingers crossed for a good outcome

 

[Lupin]

Is the test kit not by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (API)? I'd also test for pH, nitrite and nitrate if I were you.

Switch Maracyn 2 to metronidazole instead. You can buy it as Flagyl in pharmacies. Have you done gel foods before? You need to dose 250mg of metro per 25g of foods. Get a weighing scale to be sure on this precise dosage and start feeding your fish on medicated gel food. There are plenty of recipes you could find around the forums. Please post the recipe you plan to make. There are some food ingredients you want to avoid as they could aggravate the floaty issues.

 

[jack_d12]

Hi Everyone,

The Black Moor has been doing much better, eating more aggressively and he is happy to see me when I come home from work and change his water. Yesterday he would swim in loops and jump when I get home. But after a while he would settle back down with his face to the bottom. I am still feeding him green peas once a day.

I am just wondering If I should continue giving him maracyn 2 since the 5 day treatment is up. The instructions say I can continue if he is still showing symptoms. I cannot find the other medication Lupin mentioned.

The ammonia readings are still .25. The brand is Tetra btw. I am doing 10%-20% water changes daily.

 

[Somervell]

Really glad to hear the news of the improvement.

Do you use Prime? It is a great product for "ammonia locking" This kind of product is not the same as a de-chlorinator.

I am eagerly following this thread with the hope that your Moor will continue to improve. I am not certain about the Maracyn II, but I believe that you can can continue it for longer than a 5 day course.