Black Spots in My Filter Floss...Seachem Claims This is Dangerous "Anaerobic Bacteria"

[Kaskade10729]

In over 40 years, I've never replaced filter floss, just rinsed it. As matter of fact, the floss in a couple of my filters must be 35 to 40 years old.

But when I have been dunking/rinsing it in the removed tank water, most of the gunk on it doesn't wanna come off...as a matter of fact, those black stains I'm talking about never even get lighter. This is why I was thinking of blasting the floss with the kitchen hose or under the heavy tap...

 

[Kaskade10729]

I think the floss gets areas of slightly different density & more "gunk" may collect in some spots. I just try to get it fairly even but very far from perfect. I'm cheap & if I'm using floss I rinse under running tap like Dee. I kind of rub & stretch at darker areas but it doesn't take me long. I try for about 1/4 inch thick when it's wet but that can be hard to judge when it's dry. I'd say maybe 1.5 cups of floss for my AC 70 since I just did it.

Yeah, my layer of floss isn't that "even," either; it's a layer I was given by a manager at Petco when I was looking for the prefilter to put on my AquaClear 110 -- he had suggested using the floss as the prefilter, but I instead used it as a media layer in the filter basket.

If your worried (I don't think you should be) you can try to "pinch" or pull at the part that isn't as clean. When it doesn't get clean enough for you, whenever that happens (4 or 5+ times?) just replace it. If this becomes an issue you can use quilt batting cut to size. It's more expensive than floss (make sure there are no fire retardants!!) but it comes in a roll of an even layer.

How about blasting the floss layer under a stream from, say, a kitchen sink hose or a heavy stream of tap water? I am not that worried about losing bacteria in the floss, as most of it lives in the sponge/foam and bio material, right?

It could be that your ceramic media is not quite even too, & block some flow in denser areas. So more gunk will collect in the areas of more flow...if that makes sense.

Yes, that makes sense; indeed, for whatever reason, the layers of media in the AC's chamber just aren't sitting 100-percent even...what I mean by this is that no matter how hard I push the foam block down in the basket, it always "bulges" in the center because all four corners are being held down by those "clamps"...know what I mean? This, in turn, causes the floss layer and then the bio rings bags to sit a bit "uneven"...

Either floss or batting is very cheap & a bag lasts almost forever. I saw the price tag on my very old floss, $0.99 for a couch pillow amount but as you can tell I don't use it often I think it was our second or third bag ever in 40+ years. Batting I had left from some old home decor project. Back then it was ~$10 for a full or king size bed, easy to cut with scissors to size, you might use a double layer.

I'd actually feel more comfortable using floss designed for an aquarium environment than anything else; my primary goal is ridiculously polished water, so I wanted to concentrate on floss or Purigen. But is it normal that the floss is getting so discolored when I go to clean the media out a bit?

This is not from anaerobic bacteria!!! There's nowhere more aerobic than water rushing through a filter especially a large 1 like yours. I have only seen it in "play sand" with very fine & coarse grain sizes that compacted. I removed it after a couple months when bubbles came out of it when I vacuumed, eew! It had a sulfery smell to it too. Never again! Healthy filter media smells kind of earthy plant-ish, fish foody only slightly unpleasant at most...unless you very smell sensitive.

Yes -- I know EXACTLY what you're talking about with regard to the "earthy" or "clean pond-like" smell...that is PRECISELY what my tank smells like now, and what I have achieved in the past. There's almost a slight "sweetness" to the odor...

But with regard to the statement Seachem made -- why would he have told me that this is an anaerobic CONDITION in my FILTER? He made it clear that these black spots are definitely NOT good; and, as I said, I didn't see anything really online about this...

I think you should stop asking Seachem, ask us first. At least this time they didn't push their products ...maybe because you're planning on Purigen soon? Just saying...

Well, it's very easy to automatically go to "well, you're listening to manufacturers who are out to get your money, yadda yadda...." (not saying YOU stated this), but he seemed pretty hell-bent that these black spots are being caused by something dangerous in the filter. It's not that I am not asking you guys first; it's just that I happened to be in a back-and-forth email conversation with him at the time and just dropped the info that my floss had this black area in it.

I'll come here first next time; just didn't want to bother anyone here with what may be perceived as redundant questions...figured I'd pick the Seachem rep's brain while I was chatting with him. Didn't expect that answer from him.

Sorry, I know we got off on a bad foot (feet?) a while ago, but all we do want to help you

If it's true that you all do want to help, believe me -- it is greatly appreciated. As for getting off on the wrong foot/feet, as long as you can accept my reply style, I think all will be well......

I see TL was posting as I was typing. I think that he must be even more frugal than me, lol. We started with corner box filters, he probably did too. Poor as we were back, I think we occasionally replaced floss...maybe he didn't . I think he gets an award for longest lasting floss!!

I remember those corner box filters with the bubbles coming out of em! I had them when I kept tropicals as a little kid.....

 

[fishorama]

Sometimes when the AC sponges start to clog they raise up the entire grid holder, possibly bulging where there is more dense media (of any kind). It's usually the very first sponge that is catching most all the debris. That can cause the cover to rattle in an annoying way, I put a rock on the lid, But you still have to clean it all soon.

I also sometimes put the floss & ceramics between 2 sponges, really it's not super important. You don't want ceramic or floss to be the first bottom layer but play around with it to see what works best for you, your tank & cleaning style. If the mesh bag of bio bits seems to be the problem with even coverage, you can use panty hose or knee-his from the dollar store for more stretchy room, tie a knot at what seems the best fit. Very stretchy, shape to fit. Just rinse them before using. Like the quilt batting it's safe, really!

 

[Kaskade10729]

Almost from the beginning, when the foam block was new, it did that little "center bulge" thing...

 

[the loach]

But when I have been dunking/rinsing it in the removed tank water, most of the gunk on it doesn't wanna come off...as a matter of fact, those black stains I'm talking about never even get lighter. This is why I was thinking of blasting the floss with the kitchen hose or under the heavy tap...

It is perfectly normal that used floss looks dirty. You just rinse until the water that comes off is mostly clear. Really nobody renews filter floss. You only have to clean them when the flow slows, I have a couple of filters that I only have to clean every couple of years.

 

[dudley]

Yes just use the kitchen hose sprayer or similar to force the dirt out of the floss, I installed one on my laundry tub just for this purpose.

 

[Kaskade10729]

It is perfectly normal that used floss looks dirty. You just rinse until the water that comes off is mostly clear. Really nobody renews filter floss. You only have to clean them when the flow slows, I have a couple of filters that I only have to clean every couple of years.

Thanks.

It's weird, though, that you say nobody really renews floss; if you Google around on the topic, you'll see post after post in forum after forum about how floss "should be thrown out" after every water change or when dirty. This is where my confusion always comes into play...

I guess it's a moot point now, anyway, as I'm planning on using two 100ml packets of Purigen in the AquaClear for polishing...our local Petco, even though the website said it was in stock, has to order it, so I have a couple of days...but would you recommend I continue using the floss WITH the Purigen? Seems like a lot to stuff in that chamber...

I could, also, use the floss in the Aqueon filter, stuffing it in front of the bio grids...

 

[Kaskade10729]

Yes just use the kitchen hose sprayer or similar to force the dirt out of the floss, I installed one on my laundry tub just for this purpose.

Thanks Dudley.

 

[fishorama]

There are also slightly less dense filter materials that can help with fine particulates instead of floss. Might work well before your Purigen to keep it cleaner & less recharging. I have a few different 1s, none with labels...1 is ~1/2 inch stiffer polyfiber sheet, cut to fit. Just an idea...

I see I need to up my floss reusing game, lol. I get tired of rinsing & have different filters sizes &/or shapes...to me there's a point of less return, water is expensive here Floss is still cheap I think...but I dunno.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just so the whole spectrum, of opinions of filter floss is presented, I would offer the foll;owing. I have used floss in a number of filters since my first tanks. The maximum number of tanks I have ever had running at one time is 27. I also use a diversity of filters. Hang-ons (mostly AquaClears, but I have used or currently use a small Tetra Whisper Mini, an Emperor 400 (now gone) and a Liberty filter (now on the shelf). I have 3 running canisters all Eheim Pro II 2026. All of these have prefilters sponges of some type.I have 4 Hamburg Matten Filters. I use 24 air powered Poret foam cubes and 3 ATI sponged power heads. Finally, I have two running H.O.T. Magnums using the micron cartridge.

Now for floss. I began using the cotton-like floss but soon after switched to a more rigid form I could easily cut to any size/shape desired. Every one of my Aquaclears is loaded the same way- two sponges (sometimes Poret foam) with a layer of floss between them. This is not rinsed, I throw it out and replace it weekly. Floss clogs rapidly and that can be the enemy of filtration. Also, I am unwilling to rinse that much floss, I do enough other maintenance and this is "a bridge too far."

I have floss as the final layer in 2/3 canisters, the third is loaded exclusively with 20 ppi Poret foam, no sponges and no floss. I have two layers of floss at the top of the other two canisters. I clean the canisters with floss twice a year, the other one I clean when the flow slows which is about 3 years or a bit more.

The Matten filters need cleaning every few years and the Poret cubes every 3 - 4 weeks. The H.O.T.s are cleaned every 2 -3 weeks. However, all pre-filters and all hang-ons are cleaned weekly.

Now for the best part. The clearest water in my tanks are the one's with no floss. The clearest water is where I have the Hamburg Matten Filters, next are the tanks with Poret foam cubes, I over filter in that I use more cubes than are needed.

So why is the clearest water in the tanks without any floss? I mean floss is intended to remove the smallest particles, the stuff that clouds water etc. The answer is simple. Most of what causes water to be less than crystal clear is organic in nature, And nature knows how to filter a lot better than we do. There are small critters and microorganisms that eat this stuff. As organic wast hits the foam, it is attacked by things which consume it, This has the effect if making the particles smaller and they then work their way deeper in the foam. Smaller critters there do their part. In a foam cube this stuff must get rinsed out. However, a Matten lets things pass out the back side. What one sees is basically silt. It is super fine and takes a minute or two to suck out from bottom glass in the the space behind the Matten.

Massive media is what makes the biological breakdown/removal of organic waste possible in a filter. This volume of media is hard to fit into a hang-on or even many canisters. There is one more advantage to massive media, it tends to host facultative anaerobic bacreria. This means they can use oxygen if present and, if not, they use nitrate. It takes large amounts of media for this sort of bacteria to establish to the extent where you will notice the denitrification.

Just one more comment, I have never seen any floss in a fishroom with lots of tanks.