Bloated / Swollen / Apple Snail - Please Help

[ljw777]

I have a ten gallon tank that I've had for one year and four months. I have two gold fish (one that is fairly large 5-6 inches in length and the other quite a bit smaller at 2 inches) and one medium sized Apple Snail about 2 inches in circumference.

The temperature of the tank is currently 65 F, although from some research an Apple Snail requires 68-82 F. The Gold fish require 65-68 F approximately from further research. The Ph level is approx. 7.5, Ammonia 1.5 (should be zero, but can't get it to go down even with Amquel), Nitrite 0, Nitrate between 140-160 (which I know is high, but can't get to go down). I also use Cycle as a biweekly additive.

About four weeks ago, my Apple Snail became swollen or bloated to where "he" can't close "his" shell.

I talked with my local pet store and they recommended adding African root for fiber, but that hasn't yet helped. In the past week, "he" has become more lethargic and does not want to move around as much, etc. and the fish seem to harass "him" more than usual.

I've separated the fish from the snail with a screen, but have decided it may be better for "him" to be out of the water completely and have removed "him" for the time being to a dry container, until I can hopefully find a solution to correct whatever is causing "his" swelling. I am also concerned that "his" system may be shocked moving him from water to no water and vice versa.

I'd appreciate any tips, knowledge, etc. as I've got one sad girlfriend who will be even more sad if "he" reaches an untimely demise.

Thanks,

Lance

 

[Malefic23]

I really hope you're kidding. Apple snails can leave the water for brief periods, but it's an aquatic species. In all likelyhood he's having a buildup of toxins from being in bad water for so long. This may include an infection caused by weakened immune system. Your goldfish are also likely to be in extremely bad shape at this point. Try doing three 50% water changes in a row, then go buy a bigger tank.

Notice in your reasearch that goldfish require 30 gallons per fish? They produce high waste for their size, and require a lot more room than they have. You need to do daily 50 percent water changes just to keep up with the waste production, and that's just to keep them alive. I'd reccomend a much bigger tank, say 60 gal for your two fish and big snail. You'd see a lot more frisky fish, your goldies would grow out, and your snail would hopefully stop bloating.

 

[ILOVEBETTAS]

Malefic's right. And goldfish need a lot of space... if they're common or comet goldfish they need 75 gallons each. That's how big and messy they are.

So put the apple snail in a nice, CLEAN tank and get the fish out into a BIG tank. The ammonia and nitrates are so high because of overcrowding.

 

[ljw777]

First of all, I'd like to thank you for your helpful reply.

I really hope you're kidding. Apple snails can leave the water for brief periods, but it's an aquatic species. In all likelyhood he's having a buildup of toxins from being in bad water for so long. This may include an infection caused by weakened immune system. Your goldfish are also likely to be in extremely bad shape at this point. Try doing three 50% water changes in a row, then go buy a bigger tank.

From what I've found on Applesnail.net ( A truly awesome site BTW) in the "Care" section, "Don't worry, they can easily survive out of the water for more then a week, but they risk damaging their shell when hitting the ground."

As an aside, I found this out previously, after my girlfriend had changed the tank water and unknowingly, didn't leave enough room for airspace. The snail, affectionately named "Apple" climbed out of the tank, migrated down the tank stand, and onto the carpet (which he'd never done before.) She called me, very alarmed, and I figured that "he" was okay, but looked up whether they had a lung as well as gils--which they do. She put him back in the tank and "he's" been fine up until four weeks ago.

Notice in your reasearch that goldfish require 30 gallons per fish? They produce high waste for their size, and require a lot more room than they have. You need to do daily 50 percent water changes just to keep up with the waste production, and that's just to keep them alive. I'd reccomend a much bigger tank, say 60 gal for your two fish and big snail. You'd see a lot more frisky fish, your goldies would grow out, and your snail would hopefully stop bloating.

Unfortunately my girlfriend didn't realize the full requirements for goldfish. She did do research before purchasing, but perhaps not thorough enough. When she initially purchased the tank and the two goldfish, the pet store told her that it should be fine. Which at that time, it very well may have. The one goldfish has grown significantly in the past year and she knew a larger tank would have to be purchased just from the size that "Spot", the larger fish was getting to. When she got the snail, they said that shouldn't be a problem either.

Due to the complexity of everything, I can't really expect a pet store to know every single last thing, but it really does make me wonder how they keep such large volumes of fish and other aquatic life alive for extended periods of time!

Various sources I've read recommend at least 10 gallons per goldfish from what I've found recently. Obviously your experience is otherwise. I guess that these generic recommendations vary so greatly due to the varying size and type of goldfish one has.

Short term, the 10 gallon tank will get a 50% water change daily and hopefully soon we'll be able to get a larger tank to inhabit the two fish and the apple snail.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions; very much appreciated.

Lance

 

[fishcatch22]

First of all, I'd like to thank you for your helpful reply.

From what I've found on Applesnail.net ( A truly awesome site BTW) in the "Care" section, "Don't worry, they can easily survive out of the water for more then a week, but they risk damaging their shell when hitting the ground."

As an aside, I found this out previously, after my girlfriend had changed the tank water and unknowingly, didn't leave enough room for airspace. The snail, affectionately named "Apple" climbed out of the tank, migrated down the tank stand, and onto the carpet (which he'd never done before.) She called me, very alarmed, and I figured that "he" was okay, but looked up whether they had a lung as well as gils--which they do. She put him back in the tank and "he's" been fine up until four weeks ago.

the reason apple climbed out of the tank was to escape you very bad water conditions.
I reccomend buying bio-spira, as well as doing some very massive water changes. it may be pricey, but it will resolve this problem of yours, however temporarily. cycle is near useless, don't waste your money on it.

Unfortunately my girlfriend didn't realize the full requirements for goldfish. She did do research before purchasing, but perhaps not thorough enough. When she initially purchased the tank and the two goldfish, the pet store told her that it should be fine. Which at that time, it very well may have. The one goldfish has grown significantly in the past year and she knew a larger tank would have to be purchased just from the size that "Spot", the larger fish was getting to. When she got the snail, they said that shouldn't be a problem either.

Due to the complexity of everything, I can't really expect a pet store to know every single last thing, but it really does make me wonder how they keep such large volumes of fish and other aquatic life alive for extended periods of time!

Various sources I've read recommend at least 10 gallons per goldfish from what I've found recently. Obviously your experience is otherwise. I guess that these generic recommendations vary so greatly due to the varying size and type of goldfish one has.

Short term, the 10 gallon tank will get a 50% water change daily and hopefully soon we'll be able to get a larger tank to inhabit the two fish and the apple snail.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions; very much appreciated.

Lance

this is false information. fancy goldfish need 30Gs minimum iwth 20Gs per fish from there. regular goldfish need 70 gallons minimum IMO with 50Gs per fish from there.

 

[svtcontour]

I disagree about the apple snail escaping due to bad water conditions. Apple snails sometimes leave to find a play to lay their eggs. I used to have a tank with almost bang on water parameters with plants flourishing, fish happy..etc but the snail would still leave. I did some research and found they lay eggs outside of the water.

 

[ljw777]

I disagree about the apple snail escaping due to bad water conditions. Apple snails sometimes leave to find a play to lay their eggs. I used to have a tank with almost bang on water parameters with plants flourishing, fish happy..etc but the snail would still leave. I did some research and found they lay eggs outside of the water.

Hi Svtcontour,

I don't think the Apple Snail left because of the water conditions. Essentially, they need some space above the water line in the tank, so they can crawl up there if they want air instead of water. I'm also aware that they do this sometimes to lay their eggs also, but in this case, it was probably the water, as there wasn't the usual amount of space / air left at the surface of the water due to filling the tank too high.

I'm also happy to report Apple is looking somewhat better since "he" has been taken out of the water for approximately 12 hours. Some of "his" swelling has went down. Not completely, but "he" looks less swollen anyway. We've changed 50% of the water, put in a screen separator to protect "him" from the two goldfish, and put "him" back in the tank.

I knew from the start that the water nitrate levels were most likely causing the problem with "him." Now to get a new and larger tank and in the mean time, changing 50% of the water daily.

I also hypothesize that the nitrate level is only part of the problem. "He" may also need more calcium for shell growth than is currently available in the tank. I'm looking for ways to give additional calcium to Apple, without effecting the Ph level of the tank too much. Perhaps "his" body is growing at a slightly faster rate than the shell, due to a calcium deficiency.

Ideally, I am also going to build "him" some sort of "dry land" perch that either hangs from the top of the tank glass or is fastened in place with suction cups.

Thanks for the info,

Lance

 

[Malefic23]

Apple snails do leave the water on occasion for brief forays above the water line. Sometimes it's to spawn, sometimes to feed, sometimes it's the water, and sometimes, it's to try to eat the carpet. In order to help reduce the level of toxins in his system, he'll find it easiest to relase it in a clean water environment. I've never heard or seen one stay out for more than two hours, I thought their skin was too thin for them to manage more, but I may be mistaken.

I do know you get a huge amount of bad info on goldfish, especially from fish vendors. They are easily the most commonly sold fish, and almost no one who buys one realizes how big they get, or how messy they are. I'm glad to hear you're going to keep doing 50% water changes on the tank daily untill you can move them up to something big. Check your local craigslist.com for used tanks, sometimes you can pick up something good online. Ebay's another possibility, just don't try to ship a tank, too pricey.

As for upping the calcium in the water, that's pretty tough to maintain. Sometimes a cuttlebone in with the snail can help out, they scrub on it for additional calcium suppliment. If you try that, get a plain old parakeet cuttlebone, unflavored. And if you figure out a way to maintain a good calcium level another way, post it on here for other folks to read, it's a problem for a lot of snail keepers, myself included. Another decent suppliment is calcium fortified algae wafers (hard to find) or blanched zuchini. Both mess up the tank a lot more than cuttlebone, but your snail might accepts those better. See what works, and I hope he does well, apple snails are darn nifty.