Bluegill gilling like crazy
- Thread starter boojumsnark25
- Start date
Well, I don't want to enter into a debate about anything but I do want to mention the "Giant Bluegill" which is a hybrid developed here in Georgia for sport fishing. It's not necessarily germaine to this thread, but it's worth mentioning for future threads. These are being exported to other states and are available from a few pond stocking suppliers.
http://www.fishinpals.net/Giant_Bluegill.html
http://www.fishinpals.net/Giant_Bluegill.html
yeah I would really like to see a picture of these bluegill. If they are green sunfish you are in a heap of trouble. But I just want to see them. I would like to see a video of them eating too.
Ultimately much of the size of the fish whether it be bluegill of any other species is determined by genetics.
you can have the perfect environment, food , plenty of clean water and perfect temperature..but you may wind up with small fish if the genetic make up of the fish in question does not enhance the large size.
what seems to have gotten lost is the fact that fish..in this case bluegill or some other sunfish.
have developed their own genetic pool many times this pool is limited.
it is possible for some to get large while others may remain small..
we constantly see new colors and fish grown for size. this is done by selecting certain characteristics to 'enhance ' this trait in the offspring.
it is very possible that the gene pool in a pond or lake can lead to a smaller varient of this species.. just as it is possible for genes to enhance larger fish.
it will still be the same species but they may not have the genetic potential to reach large sizes.
you can have the perfect environment, food , plenty of clean water and perfect temperature..but you may wind up with small fish if the genetic make up of the fish in question does not enhance the large size.
what seems to have gotten lost is the fact that fish..in this case bluegill or some other sunfish.
have developed their own genetic pool many times this pool is limited.
it is possible for some to get large while others may remain small..
we constantly see new colors and fish grown for size. this is done by selecting certain characteristics to 'enhance ' this trait in the offspring.
it is very possible that the gene pool in a pond or lake can lead to a smaller varient of this species.. just as it is possible for genes to enhance larger fish.
it will still be the same species but they may not have the genetic potential to reach large sizes.
That certainly is a possibility, but acknowledging that possibility should not lead you to assume that ten of these fish will lead healthy lives in a 125. If you KNOW that they are genetically constrained to small sizes, fine, but I wouldn't keep ten of any Lepomis species in that size tank, not even the diminutive dollars or bantams. They are aggressive, territorial fish who need some space.
Your last post talks about 'founder effect', which is a legitimate process, but I think you got your genetic theory a bit mixed up in the post prior. Cutting rats' tails does not lead to short-tailed rats, and keeping fish in stunting conditions does not cause mutations for small size to arise; that's Lamarckian evolution, which has been rather thoroughly debunked.
Your last post talks about 'founder effect', which is a legitimate process, but I think you got your genetic theory a bit mixed up in the post prior. Cutting rats' tails does not lead to short-tailed rats, and keeping fish in stunting conditions does not cause mutations for small size to arise; that's Lamarckian evolution, which has been rather thoroughly debunked.
this might have been said in a roundabout way before..
but if youre not willing to properly stock your tank, prepare to deal with low o2 issues(at the VERY least).
that's just the way it is.
but if youre not willing to properly stock your tank, prepare to deal with low o2 issues(at the VERY least).
that's just the way it is.
Thanks to all who had something to say besides "it's overstocked". Again, my question had nothing to do with whether or not it was overstocked! If you disagree with me that's fine, but if you had read the first 3 pages, you would understand that I don't care if you think my tank is overstocked or not.
Anywho, I'm keeping the CO2 in the 10-15 range, and added two 5" round bubble discs under the sand that operate when the lights are off. I'm really happy with these and would recommend these to anyone who wants aeration, because you can bury them 100% in the substrate and they run fine. (If it wasn't for the airline you wouldn't be able to see it.) Since they've been running, oxygen has skyrocketed (and stays up during the day), and the rapid gilling has stopped.
Thanks so much to everyone who helped!
Anywho, I'm keeping the CO2 in the 10-15 range, and added two 5" round bubble discs under the sand that operate when the lights are off. I'm really happy with these and would recommend these to anyone who wants aeration, because you can bury them 100% in the substrate and they run fine. (If it wasn't for the airline you wouldn't be able to see it.) Since they've been running, oxygen has skyrocketed (and stays up during the day), and the rapid gilling has stopped.
Thanks so much to everyone who helped!
Yeah but when we're talking fish size and genetics, we're getting into a whole new level of natural selection here. External factors over time, such as food access, habitat cover availability and size, predation, weather, can all have an effect when determining the maximum size on an individual within a given species. I.E. Bluegill in a small habitat will generally be smaller than bluegill in a larger habitat. But in the end, genetically, they're all still bluegill.
Also, according to Fishes: An Introduction to Ichthyology (5th Edition) by Peter B. Moyle and Joseph J. Cech, fish will continually grow throughout their lifetime, unlike people who eventually stop. So each individual Bluegill, given it is a pure strain of Lepomis macrochirus, and under perfect conditions, has the potential to reach record sizes.
Although not necessarily relating to fish, another interesting rule in ecology relating to size is Bermann's Rule. This states that geographic races of a species possessing smaller body size are found in the warmer parts of the range, and races of larger body size in cooler parts. So as latitude increases, generally so does the size of that animal. This is interesting because genetically, they're still the same species, but their geographical location has helped dictate their size.
While we're off-topic:
Bermann's rule works well for mammals, not so well for ectotherms. The benefits of mass homoeothermy in cold environments may be the driver for mammals; it's easier to stay warm if you're big, and conversely, it's easier to cool off if you're small.
For ectotherms, the situation is more complex. In some species the longer growing season in warm climes clearly encourages greater growth- e.g. largemouth bass, snapping turtles, and bullfrogs all get bigger in the southerly parts of their ranges. However, the increased biodiversity and subsequent niche partitioning may encourage animals to pursue more of an r-strategy in reproduction (breed early, breed often) which diverts resources from growth and can lead to earlier mortality, leading to smaller individuals. I think this may be occurring with green treefrogs, which tend to be significantly larger on the northern fringes of the range than in deep southern populations.
Bermann's rule works well for mammals, not so well for ectotherms. The benefits of mass homoeothermy in cold environments may be the driver for mammals; it's easier to stay warm if you're big, and conversely, it's easier to cool off if you're small.
For ectotherms, the situation is more complex. In some species the longer growing season in warm climes clearly encourages greater growth- e.g. largemouth bass, snapping turtles, and bullfrogs all get bigger in the southerly parts of their ranges. However, the increased biodiversity and subsequent niche partitioning may encourage animals to pursue more of an r-strategy in reproduction (breed early, breed often) which diverts resources from growth and can lead to earlier mortality, leading to smaller individuals. I think this may be occurring with green treefrogs, which tend to be significantly larger on the northern fringes of the range than in deep southern populations.
