Bottled Ammonia???

[wataugachicken]

If you are going to use gravel from an established & healthy tank then you don't need to any ammonia.

not true. while there will be some bacteria in the gravel, a handful is not nearly enough to add your fish to and expect everything to be peachy. most of the bacteria is in the filter media and other high-oxygen places. there is some in the gravel, but less, and only on the very top layers exposed to circulation. unless you take all the gravel and all the filters from one tank and move it to another, you'll still have some kind of cycle.

the point of seeding a fishless cycle is to get a head start instead of waiting for some good bacteria to wander in on their own. you still need to feed with ammonia over a period of time in order to raise the amount of bacteria up to a high level where you can add all of your fish at once and the waste needs will be taken care of. just a handful of gravel isn't going to do the job.

seeding = adding bacteria from another source.
adding ammonia = adding food for the bacteria.

 

[RTR]

Gravel or filter media from an established tank is to provide some of the ammonia and nitrite oxidizing bacteria. Ammonia is to provide food/energy for those bacteria to grow to sufficient colony size to support the tank, it does not provide any bacteria itself. Both bacteria and ammonia are required for fishless cycling if you want it go quickly.

 

[RustyRay]

I have always used small filter bags of gravel, tansfered to a new tank, as my method. With no ammonia at all. Never a problem.

It is not true that most of the bacteria reside in the filter. People often think this because of the large surface area in the filter material, but the surface area of the gravel is enormous and is coated with bacteria. A bag of gravel has more than enough bateria to hand 2 small fish.

If one adds conditioned gravel and a couple of fish to a new tank, there will be no spikes in ammonia or nitrite.

But if you use gravel and ammonia with no fish, you are actually taking a step backward, because it is unwise to add the fish while you are using ammonia.

Why not just add 2 fish and the gravel.

Many aquarists seem to make things harder than they need to be.

The fishless cycling method is great, but was originally intended to seed an aquarium to the point where you could add a full stock of fish.

All this ammonia and water testing seems like mental masturbation to me. Why not keep things simple.

 

[Ghostshrimp55]

Why not keep things simple.

Probably because it's more of a pain in the butt to add fish over a long period of time than it is to add them all in one shot. Who wants to run back and forth to the LFS over a period of several weeks if you don't have to?

Also, from what I've been reading, fishless cycling only requires you to do one big water change at the end. With fishy cycling, you have to monitor the levels constantly and do frequent water changes while your bacteria colonies grow to a level large enough to accomodate the current level of fish. Plus, you're probably going to stress out a little more doing a fishy cycle because if you screw up and let ammonia levels get too high, you could lose your fish.

 

[Ghostshrimp55]

I sent my wife to Wal-Mart to pick up the clear ammonia. I guess it must be different out where I am. Ingredients: Ammonium Hydroxide and SURFACTANT.

Mine just had "ammonia, water and chelating agent"

 

[RTR]

If "It is not true that most of the bacteria reside in the filter.", then why is It that I can take a filter from an established tank, put it on a new tank, add the fish from the prior tank, and have no detectable ammonia or nitrite? But if I then add fish to old tank with a newly set filter, I have a fishy cycle with ammonia and nitrite detectable over an extended period? Or if I "cycle" that new filter fishlessly on an empty tank, I can move it to another new tank, add fish, and have no ammonia or nitrite detectable?

My experience is exactly the opposite of that quoted. Most of my nitrification occurs in the filters on my tanks, not in the gravel. This has been confirmed many timea on my tanks.

 

[wataugachicken]

Probably because it's more of a pain in the butt to add fish over a long period of time than it is to add them all in one shot. Who wants to run back and forth to the LFS over a period of several weeks if you don't have to?

not to mention that if you add all your fish at once, and they get some kind of illness, you only have to treat once, instead of QT'ing new fish every time for a month and having to deal with the hassle of maintaining that tank as well. Of course, you could always just throw in the new fish every couple weeks and keep your fingers crossed that they aren't carrying any diseases.

RustyRay - exactly what types of filtration and other tank equipment do you use?