Bottom feeders
- Thread starter Flower1982
- Start date
Yep, Kuhli loaches won't eat waste (although they do make great bottomfeeders for small tanks), supposedly however, the Scat (argus fish) will eat fish waste in its natural habitat, which is how it got its common name. I don't know, this may be a myth, but a book I read said it was true.
OrionGirl said:
As to the "no fish does" (eats waste)- I quote Baensch Aquarium Atlas Vol. 1, pg. 202:
"Limnivore or mud eater
Med Eaters feed on such vegetable matter as algae and detritus and on the microorganisms which live in them."
So, considering one of the most informed fish "minds" of our time has a completely separate feeding category for "Limnivore" referring to fish eating habits, I suppose their might be a few more than "no fish" eating detritus.
As to the specific quote concerning the Kuhli being a limnivore, I will assure you it is in a well respected publication, and I will work on finding it for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detritus_(biology)
Detritus can be any number of things, including plant matter, dead fish, or bits of food that other fish aren't eating. It does NOT mean fish waste.
Detritus can be any number of things, including plant matter, dead fish, or bits of food that other fish aren't eating. It does NOT mean fish waste.
Not to start a flame war or anything, but I have had the luck to see the amusing if somewhat disgusting display of my fish eating waste before it even, um, "separated" from another fish's body. I'm not making any claims here, and they don't do it often, but man, it is gross.
But on topic, I reccommend ghost shrimp. They coexist peacefully with my betta, I have somewhere between 10-15 in my 10g. They put a serious hurting on my brown algae(diatom?) problem and are amusing to watch.
But on topic, I reccommend ghost shrimp. They coexist peacefully with my betta, I have somewhere between 10-15 in my 10g. They put a serious hurting on my brown algae(diatom?) problem and are amusing to watch.
OrionGirl said:
Nor does it exlcude fish waste. Specifically, for those who want to be informed, it means any organic waste that makes it to the bottom of the tank. Then, as it all decomposes, it makes the "mud" in the Limnivore definition of "Mud Eater". At that point, any of it that is comsumed can very well have elements of fish waste in it, as it has become homogenous.
The point I am making is that no fish will remove wastes from the tank, and that it is erroneous to assume that because some fish go through the waste searching for undigested food actually consume and can live off that waste. In other words, saying that a kuhlie loach will eat fish waste implies that they do not need another food source, and this is wrong. Kuhlie loaches should not be relied upon to consume the waste of other fish in the tank.
in addition to TetraBiota's comments, i would like to add something for clarity.
"fish waste" is too broad a term for this particular discussion. there are mainly two excrements released into the water. one is nearly all ammonia and water, with some protien chains in solution filtered from the blood by the kidneys. (#1, hehe). i've yet to encounter or come across any animals (macroscopic,that is) that feed on ammonia.
fish feces (#2) is the byproduct and excrement released from the digestive tract. it can contain many undigested foods (large carbohydrate chains, cellulose, etc.) which ARE the main food for other organisms. in a 'mud,' even more organisms thrive on the feces, ameobiods and invertebrates, for example. another reason fish eat feces.
i love a good debate.
"fish waste" is too broad a term for this particular discussion. there are mainly two excrements released into the water. one is nearly all ammonia and water, with some protien chains in solution filtered from the blood by the kidneys. (#1, hehe). i've yet to encounter or come across any animals (macroscopic,that is) that feed on ammonia.
fish feces (#2) is the byproduct and excrement released from the digestive tract. it can contain many undigested foods (large carbohydrate chains, cellulose, etc.) which ARE the main food for other organisms. in a 'mud,' even more organisms thrive on the feces, ameobiods and invertebrates, for example. another reason fish eat feces.
i love a good debate.
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OrionGirl said:
Well- let's explain things more clearly then.
OrionGirl said:
Actually, some fish do comsume some of the waste from a tank. In turn, they will create their own waste. I never said Kühli will eat ONLY fish waste, nor did I state they LIVE off it exclusively.
OrionGirl said:
Actually, that is exactly what I am saying. I am saying that they do live in part off of decaying biological waste, including fish poop, on the bottom of the tank. And nobody but you to this point has suggested they live exclusively off of it.
OrionGirl said:
Nobody suggested that. In fact, what I said was "A Kuhli Loach or two might do a great job for you too, as they not only would eat much of the food that hits the bottom (they come out mostly at night though, if they have places to hide during the day), but Kuhli's also eat detritus"
So I am not sure where your claim that I suggest they do not need another food source comes from.
OrionGirl said:
Again, not something I claimed or recommended.
You have to be careful when you assume something incorrectly that you don't take your own false assumption and then try to assign it falsely to someone else. You made a lot of assumptions there which led to you believing someone made the stark comments that you later used in your defense... but the only place those comments ever took place was in your mind, not in my answer.
indiginess said:in addition to TetraBiota's comments, i would like to add something for clarity.
"fish waste" is too broad of a term for this particular discussion. there are mainly two excrements released into the water. one is nearly all ammonia and water, with some protien chains in solution filtered from the blood by the kidneys. (#1, hehe). i've yet to encounter or come across any animals (macroscopic,that is) that feed on ammonia.
fish feces (#2) is the byproduct and excrement by the digestive tract. it can contain many undigested foods and large carbohydrate chains which ARE the main food for other organisms. in a 'mud,' even more organisms thrive on the feces, ameobiods and invertebrates, for example. another reason fish eat feces.
i love a good debate.
I love a good informed debate... thanks Indi for adding some clarity as well.
:clap:
The only macroscopic consumer of ammonia are that I know of are plants, but, as you said, those aren't animals.
Oh- maybe I better clarify that the plants don't eat ALL the ammonia, nor should you expect that they need NO other source of food- and plants should NOT be relied upon to remove all of the ammonia waste of other fish in the tank (nor ammonia from decomposing food, detritus, or other organic material)...
just so we don't have to do THAT again.
