Bottom Sitting Black Moor? Is he okay?

[Amour]

Hi! I'm new here to the forums. I'm not new to having fish, but all the ones I've had previously were when I was young, and now that I'm older and more responsible, I'd like to raise my fish the right way.

I just bought a small tank for two baby goldfish, one a gold fantail, and the other a Black Moor. At the store they were both in the same tank, and the goldie was with the rest of his group, and Blackie as I call him was the only one of his kind and he was out by himself swimming which I thought made him special and unique, but when I got home with them he seemed to have some problems.

After some reading on the internet me and my husband realized that the tank we bought for them might be a little small. It's only 1.5 gallons. But it has a good filter, and we plan on getting them a much bigger tank when possible. But this is the best we have for now.

The tank is new, but I set it up 24 hours before hand like the instructions told us to. But from what I've been reading, you're supposed to 'cycle' it first? I'm not sure what that means, so a little help?

Also, now to the problem. Ever since I put them in that tank, the goldie has been happy and active and eats happily and swims around. But Blackie just stays at the bottom. At first he wouldn't even eat. Which we read could be 'new tank syndrome'. That was yesterday.

Then today when I attempted to feed them this morning, he did eat and was quite hungry. After he ate he would be active for a little while, but go back to being in his little spot in the corner not doing much of anything. At one point he even had enough energy to 'fight' with the other fish for leftovers. They didn't hurt each other or anything. I think it was just playing. But after that, he just went to his spot.

He has no spots on him, or anything that looks like he's diseased. Here's a couple of pictures of him:

Also, we have about half a teaspoon of freshwater aquarium salt in the very back where the plants are, as per the directions. Petco said they were good for gill function and added electrolytes to their water.

And another thing, should we put a small live plant in their tank? I read that live plants help oxygenate the water and absorbs carbon dioxide and other wastes that fish make.

I should also note that we are going to buy some brine shrimp, and blood worms to add some variety to their diet, because I read that it's good for them.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Pearl]

You made several mistakes. Allow me to point out the major mistakes.

1.) You need to "cycle" your tank by introducing beneficial bacteria. This can take from two weeks to three months depending on how you introduce the bacteria.

2.) Goldfish poop a lot. That's one of the reasons why they need at least fifteen gallons for one fancy goldfish, with another ten gallons for each additional fancy.

As for your black moor, all things considering, I'd say that he's on his way out of this mortal coil. But that's okay. Just learn from these mistakes and move on. If you're like me, it won't be your last mistake but each tank will be an improvement.

 

[Amour]

Hmm. But I should also add that during the day he's a lot more active. It's only at night really that he stays at the bottom.

Is he really going to die?

 

[Geeky1]

It may or may not be dying. 1.5 gallons is extremely small for two goldfish and it could just be that the other fish is more aggressive and since the moor has nowhere really to go it just stays as far out of the way as it can.

I've got a longer post in the works with some more information that you should find helpful, but I wanted to get that out there now while I had a minute (and because I developed tendonitis recently and it's going to take me a while to write a longer post up :wall. I'm glad you're researching this stuff though, a lot of people don't and they end up giving up after killing a few fish. You may or may not lose the moor but the people around here can teach you what you need to know to avoid a repeat. For the time being, just plan to change about 1/2 gallon of water in the tank 3 times a week (I'll explain why in my next post if nobody else does); set the replacement water out in a separate container the night before to allow it to come to the same temperature as the water in the tank and use a dechlorinator before you put the fresh water in the tank.

 

[Amour]

For the time being, just plan to change about 1/2 gallon of water in the tank 3 times a week (I'll explain why in my next post if nobody else does); set the replacement water out in a separate container the night before to allow it to come to the same temperature as the water in the tank and use a dechlorinator before you put the fresh water in the tank.

Thanks a lot for your input! I will do a partial water change every couple of days. I do and have used AquaSafe in their water. I used it when I set up the tank and will continue to use it with every water change.

 

[H2Ogal]

Unfortunately, goldies are frequently sold as beginner fish for tiny tanks. Neither is true. Goldfish need very large tanks, high filtration and frequent water changes. Properly kept, your two babies (and they really are babies right now) could be started in a 30 gal. tank, but you would need to upgrade to a 55 gal. or larger very soon. And that's just two goldfish. Add more, and the numbers get much bigger.

You may have been told that fish "grow to the size of the tank." That's not true, either. In too small a tank, fish become stunted, meaning that their bodies stay small while their internal organs continue to grow. Stunting damages fish permanently and greatly shortens their lives.

The kindest/best route, honestly, is to return the goldies and tank, do some research on all sorts of fish until you know what you really want to keep, set up an appropriate tank and cycle it, and then get your fish.

Sorry if that sounds rough. I'm not hard-hearted, and know that you're just making the same mistakes many of us have. I once had four goldies and a common pleco in a 30g long. Things did not end well for any of them, and it was 20 years before I decided to try fish again. Now I'm into small tropical fish — and really enjoying myself. Fish keeping is fun and interesting, but it requires a lot of research and dedication. You're obviously a very caring person and willing to do what it takes, so you're off to a good start! I wish you lots of luck and joy with your fishies.

 

[Amour]

Hey everybody, thanks for all the replies.

This is Amour's husband here.

We went to PetCo (which is where we bought the 2 Goldies) today and they didn't really know very much about them. I was surprised.

Anyway, if we return them (we would really hate to see them die), what should we get instead? Would a Betta be o.k in this tank? The reason we can't upgrade to a bigger tank is because we just don't have the room for it. Also, are Bettas as hard to care for? We don't want to kill any pets so that's why we seem so worried about it.

Thanks!

 

[H2Ogal]

Hi, Amour's Husband!

Yes, the store will take back the goldies. It's too bad, but not too surprising, about the ignorant sales help. As you become more knowledgeable, you'll quickly be able to tell which employees actually know anything about fish. Those that do will try to help — but be advised their job is to sell products. For instance, be prepared to be told that bettas actually like teeny-tiny unheated, unfiltered containers. That's bogus.

Bettas deserve heated, filtered tanks just like all tropical fish. A 25 watt heater can work in a 1.5 gal. but the temp won't be as stable as it would in a slightly larger tank. Upgrading to a Mini-Bow 2.5 or Eclipse 3 would be an excellent idea and would take very little more room or money than the tank you bought. (Which you can also return.)

You need plants for a happy betta. They like to hang out under the leaves, and nap on them. Pretty funny. Live plants are best, but silk will do if there are no pointy bits or rough edges. Avoid plastic.

Visit the Anabantoids forum for loads more betta love. But be careful: It's addictive.

 

[Amour]

Okay, I took back the goldies. When I took them back, both were really healthy. The Moor had stopped sitting on the bottom all the time. We watched them put the little guys back into the tank, and they seemed pretty happy to be with all their friends again.

Now, we bought a Crowntail Betta.

 

[platytudes]

Much better choice, good work! Remember to research every fish before you get it in the future - don't rely on things you've seen or heard in the past, as these can be erroneous. Bettas, for example, are frequently kept in tiny decorative things like this:

The beginner thinks to himself/herself - "ooh, how pretty!" but actually the fish is suffering inside. It is only because bettas are air breathers and relatively inactive that they can tolerate such abuse (and that's exactly what it is, sorry if that offends anyone). There is no filter, no heater, no aeration on this enclosure - most fish would die in it, but not a betta, so manufacturers continue to make these cruel decorations for them to live in.

These small tanks are OK for bettas, not perfect, but much better because they can fit a tiny "bowl heater" and they have a filter. If you can change about 50% of the water twice weekly, this will go a long way towards keeping things clean. Don't overfeed, since a betta's stomach is only about the size of his eye. Always use dechlorinator also, for small tanks like this the Prime 50 mL bottle is great since it comes with a dropper cap - 2 drops per gallon is all you need.

Goldfish live in bowls on TV and in childhood memories...but not in real life. I know many people think they are doing a fine thing, giving them an upgrade because tanks like these are like a bowl but with extras. But just do a little Google search and you'll see - fancy goldfish get to 8" at maturity, they are very messy fish. You shouldn't even think about getting one unless you have a 29 gallon tank. Even a "bad" website will say to at least get a 10 gallon tank for a young goldfish...but anyhow, the betta was the right choice for this tank! As H2O said, you will probably want to upgrade whenever you can - 5 gallon kits work great for these fish:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-5-G...-Kit-and-Tetra-50-Watt-Heater-Bundle/13228131

These can be put on top of a counter, a sturdy dresser or bookcase (not particleboard, though). And a tank this size would allow you to keep something else besides just a betta, perhaps a few shrimp or some snails. And you can grow live plants, too!