Breeding in community tanks

[Slashdogg]

What cichlids would be "happy" to breed in a community tank with other fish like neons and cories etc?

I have a spare 30 gallon and i'd like to try my hand at breeding firemouths or bolivian rams, (if either are suitable for a 30 gal), and i was wondering if I could keep other fish in there with them whilst this is happening. I still have a lot more time for planning because the tank doesn't even have a stand yet.

My gut feelings are that this would not work for 2 possible reasons:
1) they aren't keen on having other fish around (i.e. no breeding at all)
2) they'd kill off all the other fish when they started breeding

Am I right?

Has anyone else had success with breeding cichlids in community tanks?

I'm also toying with the idea of a species tank of brichardis, but if either of the other two would breed with community fish without a mass murder I'd rather do that.

TIA
Ryan

 

[xhibition]

Someone else can probably assist you with SA's but you should be able to do shellies with some type od dither fish. I've kept Bricahrdi before and trust me, Brichardi is definate no no. You can even have a pair with other cichlids, they will evnetually kill off the all other species once they get breeding and create a whole colony.

 

[Slashdogg]

I did mean that I would house the brichardi in a species only tank, I just meant that that option would have taken second place to keeping a community tank with one of the SA cichlids mentioned. Sorry if it was unclear. Anyone have any advice/experience?

 

[Ramirezi]

rams MIGHT work. not sure if the bolivian ram has the same temperment as the blue rams though.
my friend who has blue rams has had luck breeding them in a 29 gal community tank. he has a cave on one side of the tank in a corner. the rams staked out that corner as theirs. they will drive all the other fish away from that corner while they're tending their young though. the main problem he had were that the other fish would try and eat the fry and thats when the rams would go ballistic and attack. they didnt seriously injure any other fish, just a few tore up tail fins. and i definitely wouldnt keep any bottom dwelling fish in with the rams. my friend had cories and the rams would chase them all over the tank when they had eggs or fry. he ended up moving the cories to another tank.

 

[Slappy*McFish]

Angelfish, keyhole cichlids, and Kribs are some options. Have had all of these fish breed in a community environment, at one time or another, with minimal problems. I don't have any breeding experience with Rams but have bred Apistos before...probably not the best choice for a community tank, however. Firemouths are definitely out of the question.

 

[Slashdogg]

Thanks guys.... Hmm. There goes that idea.

 

[mooman]

Don't give up on this idea. Since you haven't bought any other fish it is easy to plan around the breeders. First, go with apistos. They are hands down the most interesting fish I’ve owned. Cacatuoides are the species usually suggested for beginners since they breed readily in most tap water. They can form harems, so you could get multiple females. They are expensive, and hard to find in most lfs (try aquabid). "Expensive" and "hard to find" may sound like a negative, but the fry will be far more desirable and get you more credit at lfs than the more common rams and kribs.

Now for the supporting cast:
Dithers: pencil fish and hatchet fish are attractive, and will stick to the upper part of the tank, and are unlikely to predate very heavily on fry.
Algae control: four or five otos. They are small enough and unabtrusive enough to escape major harassment from the apistos.
Clean Up: ghost shrimp. They do a great job keeping the tank clean. The apistos will eat them whenever they molt, but I consider this an enrichment activity for them. (for the apistos that is, the ghost shrimp get very little enrichment out of it) They're cheap and easily replenished. (Cories will eat fry and be mercilessly picked on by the apistos, so avoid them)

Now all you need is a bare bottomed grow-up tank for the fry. An inexpensive sponge filter is ideal for fry and lighting is not necessary.

 

[Slashdogg]

Wow, thanks for all the effort in that post mooman.

Unfortunately, I've never ever in my whole life even seen an apisto of any kind.. I wouldn't mind spending extra cash on a really interesting fish, but unfortunately you'll notice that I live in South Africa, and I dont think aquabid ships internationally. Still the cacatuoides sound really awesome. I'll try aquabid, but I'd be surprised.

At this stage I'm looking into keyholes, and if I can find some of those I may keep them. The other thing is that it is simply impossible to get ghost shrimp here. Its just not going to happen (*waits for Mr. Murphy to knock on the door with a plastic bag full*). They never ever (i'm not even talking seldom here) show up in LFS's.

If I could find the apistos by some stroke of good fortune, would a bristlenosed plec work for algae control? I prefer them to otos. Also would the black neons I already (in a 15) have work as dithers? They dont exactly stick to the upper sections of my 15, but I never see them below a third of the way up. I'm happy to keep less of them if that will help (dont worry, I wont flush any extras or anything, I have a few friends who'd give any extras a good home).

Another thing, the 15 I have already (it's 2' by 1' by 1') be suitable as a grow up tank?

Thanks again for the effort. I'm off to aquabid.

::EDIT :: Murphy already started his shenanigans, I saw 2 posts for cacatuoides at aquabid, and they were both willing to ship internationally.

 

[mooman]

I've never owned the keyholes, but the ones i've seen seem pretty fun to watch. My advice on tankmates would be the same.

would a bristlenosed plec work for algae control?

I had some kind of dwarf species of pleco in with my cacatuoides and he was fine. They harased him a little, but nothing that an armored catfish couldn't handle. In my experience pleco are far from strict vegetarians, and will pull double duty (algea control and clean up), so not having access to ghost shrimp is no problem. The down side, is that keyhole's don't use caves (substrate spawners), and plecos will eat eggs. They are good parents however and should be able to keep the pleco at bay.

would the black neons I already (in a 15) have work as dithers?

I've heard tetras work ok as dithers. I've also heard that leaving a small light (like a nightlight) on at night simulates moonlight and allows the parents to guard the fry at night when most fry predation probably occurs.

Another thing, the 15 I have already (it's 2' by 1' by 1') be suitable as a grow up tank?

Sure. You could probably raise 15-20 fry to around 1inch in a 15gallon. From what i've heard it's all about frequent water changes when it comes to raising fry in smaller tanks. Clean water is the key.

I saw 2 posts for cacatuoides at aquabid, and they were both willing to ship internationally.

That's great, if they are as rare in South Africa as you say, then the fry should be worth a fortune.

If you can afford it, then get a few extra females so you will get at least one compatible pair (cichlids can sometimes be picky when it come to mate choice)

PS sand is the way to go as far as a substrate goes.

here's a source for some great apisto articles from some very knowledgable breeders: www.aquarticles.com (new world cichlids)

 

[Slashdogg]

Thanks again mooman. I'm seriously considering the cac's at this stage. I'm only really concerned about international shipping costs as the post on aquabid said $27 anywhere in the states, so I don't know how much more it would be to get them here.

I was also wondering about the rigours of international shipping on the fish, would the cac's definitely be ok (assuming they're in good starting health of course)? That may be a whole new thread by itself.

The aquabid post also said that the fish were only sold in pairs, so I'll have to inquire about the possibility of extra females.

What (if any) tankmates have you got with your cac's?

Thanks again.
Ryan.